Internode accuses Telstra of wholesale price bias

 

Cost dispute escalates.

ISP Internode has accused Telstra of giving more favourable wholesale pricing and terms to service providers not rolling out competing DSLAM networks.

A Telstra spokesman refused to be drawn on the specific allegations.

"We are not interested in a public battle on what is a private and confidential negotiation," the spokesman said.

As many Australians tuned into an announcement by independent MP Bob Katter on the country's political future, Internode managing director Simon Hackett stepped up his campaign for Telstra to cut its wholesale port prices on the broadband forum Whirlpool.

Internode and at least two other ISPs lodged complaints with the competition watchdog last month that sought intervention to resolve the dispute.

Hackett speculated yesterday that variance in retail pricing among Telstra port resellers was "not about negotiating skill" differences between the various ISPs.

"What makes you think [Telstra Wholesale] aren't playing favourites in terms, conditions and/or timing?" Hackett said.

"There are lines here that I can't cross in public due to NDA's [non-disclosure agreements], but surely you're able to read between them a bit?

"Think about it. Consider that ISPs who choose to make massive investments in their own DSLAM infrastructure are likely to be considered differently by [Telstra Wholesale] to ISPs who don't do so.

"Our treatment should of course be identical, but alas we don't all live in that ideal world, do we?"

Internode and other ISPs were under pressure to either cut the price of resold Telstra services or see customers jump ship to BigPond.

"We fully appreciate that in this interim period (before the price squeeze is dealt with properly by Telstra Wholesale), we will lose some customers to BigPond," Hackett said.

"We're sad about that. But we're not so sad about it that we're prepared to go broke to avoid it happening, because if we go broke, then we can't help our customers in the long term either."

Hackett said Internode would revise its Telstra port-based plan prices "once Telstra Wholesale provided a commercially acceptable revision to their source costs".

"We've been promised a commercially acceptable offer by Telstra 'next week' for the last several weeks," Hackett said.

"I'm personally optimistic that one of these 'next weeks' soon will be the one where that actually happens."

He said it would take "about a month" for Internode to implement new prices once it had received an acceptable written offer from Telstra.

Telstra's spokesman said the company's wholesale division was in "negotiations with many... DSL customers."

"We are being flexible and commercial and doing the best we can to accommodate their requirements," the spokesman said.

"Broadband is a very competitive market and Telstra Wholesale is committed to making sure that its commercial offers are attractive to wholesale customers and competitive to the market."

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Internode accuses Telstra of wholesale price bias
"@longsword - "Ermm Conboy has already said that it will end up as retail as well unless they can on-sell the NBN at a good profit." Do you have a source for this information? I like to think that ..."
By Bazwalt
 
 
 
Comments: 10
EMwyres
Sep 8, 2010 3:08 PM
From my own experience working in a couple of different ISP or ISP-like environments, Telstra DEFINITELY do this...this is why the equal wholesale price the NBN will provide is so important to the industry...the wholesale industry (ie: basically Telstra) has proven they can't play fair on wholesale pricing, so they can't be trusted with that monopoly any longer...
Res
Sep 8, 2010 3:09 PM
"Think about it. Consider that ISPs who choose to make massive investments in their own DSLAM infrastructure are likely to be considered differently by [Telstra Wholesale] to ISPs who don't do so."

I've never been a fan of Telstra, but I see nothing wrong here, I'm sure Simon would be doing the exact same thing if the shoe was on the other foot.

Why shouldn't those TW customers, that decide to be a ports only customer of Telstra, thereby showing some confidence and loyalty, get a more favorable deal, knowing full well ISP's with their own equipment are going to favor putting their customers on their gear first, it is actually a logical commercial decision, nothing sinister about it IMHO.
Res
Sep 8, 2010 3:16 PM
@EMwyres "Telstra DEFINITELY do this"

and from my experience also, yes, they have done so for well over a decade, be it DSL, Dial, ISDN ports, FR, ATM's, Ge etc etc etc.

I'm certain Internode have also benefited from this in the past, as did many ISP's over the years.
advocate
Sep 8, 2010 7:10 PM
So all the ADSL2+ wholesale competitors other than Telstra Wholesale all provide the exact same port price to all of their ISP customers? yeah right pull the other one.

djzort
Sep 8, 2010 8:45 PM
this is exactly why NBN is a bad thing. without vertical integration, variety and competition, consumers can never reap the benefits.
Bazwalt
Sep 8, 2010 9:48 PM
@advocate - Those who provide ADSL2+ via Telstra Wholesaled ports won't get the EXACT same price but they will get close enough. The providers with their own DSLAMs in the exchanges will simply pay the rent and w/e extra tax on top but the costs will be far lower.

@djzort - You forget that the NBN is purely a wholesale arm. No retail. From what I am reading, it seems that all providers will be paying roughly equal price for wholesale fibre access. Which means the retail ISPs are set free to come up with their own pricing access models (within bounds of the trade act laws). There will be variety, and plenty of of it. Same for competition - I bet that it's gonna be extremely heated when the ball starts rolling.
advocate
Sep 9, 2010 9:15 AM
Bazwalt wrote:


Those who provide ADSL2+ via Telstra Wholesaled ports won't get the EXACT same price but they will get close enough

That's the opposite of what Internode asserted is happening!

The providers with their own DSLAMs in the exchanges will simply pay the rent and w/e extra tax on top but the costs will be far lower.

Yes I know how it works, but there are multiple wholesalers of ADSL2+ all offering their ISP clients different port pricing based on the usual wholesale marketing selling strategies, number of customers, what other product lines they take, terms & conditions on payment etc.

It seems it's ok for any wholesaler other than Telstra to do this, why?
longsword
Sep 9, 2010 10:42 AM
@bazwalt "You forget that the NBN is purely a wholesale arm. No retail"

Ermm Conboy has already said that it will end up as retail as well unless they can on-sell the NBN at a good profit.
ADSLNerd
Sep 9, 2010 11:38 AM
Im sick of these winging ISP's and they should not be piggy-backing off other ISP's infrastructure. Internode should build their own network at their own cost. Telstra is independent and can decide how much they charge and when - its their own network and they have the final say. Remember Telstra was started by the taxpayers for the taxpayers benefit, not for the other ISP's benefit. Did any of use ask the other ISP's to go into business against Telstra - NO. They made this decision at their own peril and now they are winging about the consequences - too bad. Telstra may not be the cheapest ISP around, but hell their service and reliability is bar none. if internode cannot have their own network and DSLAM's to provide a service, then they will never survive.

As for the case of this so-called "competition" (or as i call it "outbidding others purely for cost"), if the electricity price increases are a sign of the result of de-regulation, then we are going backwards not forwards. More companies provide power yet the price increases not decreases. If other ISP's want to enter the market they must set up their own company owned infrastructure. Internet prices haven't changed much over the years - its all a fallacy. The more providers the more greed - opposite effect.
Bazwalt
Sep 9, 2010 1:43 PM
@longsword - "Ermm Conboy has already said that it will end up as retail as well unless they can on-sell the NBN at a good profit."

Do you have a source for this information? I like to think that i've been following the NBN pretty closely but if i've missed something than i'm all ears. But last I heard is that NBN was proposed as wholesale-only and the purpose behind the project was to give an even playing field for providers.
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