Internode, iiNet respond to Telstra price "aggression"

 

Wholesale vs retail prices under scrutiny.

Chiefs from two of Australia's largest ISPs have responded to Telstra's assertions that it would compete with them "fairly but very aggressively" for broadband customers this year.

The assertions came at a disappointing financial results announcement by Telstra last week that saw almost 10 percent of its stock value wiped in a day.

"We have been losing too many customers and we cannot allow it," Telstra chief David Thodey said. "In fact, I'm not going to allow it to continue."

Thodey put ISPs - including those that bought Telstra's wholesale services - on notice that the incumbent was going to continue a series of aggressive retail price moves it launched in recent months.

The moves sparked complaints to the competition watchdog from several ISPs, including Internode and iiNet.

iTnews asked the managing directors of both ISPs to respond to Telstra's "fairly but very aggressively" comment. Their responses are included below.

iPrimus was also asked to comment but did not respond by the time of publication.

Michael Malone, managing director, iiNet

Nobody denies Telstra's right to compete in the market, on a fair basis. We're more than happy to meet and beat Telstra on customer service, product innovation and cost management.

But where there is no wholesale competition, Telstra is using its ownership of the network to give its own retail arm an unfair advantage.

Right now, Telstra is selling a retail ADSL2+ broadband service for $49.95, as you can see headlined right here.

But Telstra charges more than $49.95 just for the port!

The port access is not the whole broadband service, it's just one component of it, and Telstra is charging more for that component than their retail arm sells the whole product for.

Imagine a state-supported monopoly wheat supplier entering the retail bread market and selling bread for less than they are willing to sell wheat to other bakeries. It's just not on.

I am confident of our ability to beat Telstra in a fair fight. In our opinion, they are misusing their market power in wholesale ADSL to give themselves an unfair advantage in retail.

That's one more reason why we need structural reform for the industry.

Simon Hackett, managing director, Internode

There are two stories wrapped up in the commentary attributed to David Thodey, regarding Telstra about price competition in fixed line broadband, and I think its worth separating those two stories clearly and cleanly.

On the one hand, there is the story of Telstra waking up to the merits of offering competitive ADSL2+ pricing via its retail arm, BigPond. Media reports say the Telstra position regarding its retail ADSL2+ competitors is that: "...it will compete with them 'fairly but very aggressively' to retain and grow its own retail customer base".

In response to this notion, the competitive retail ADSL2+ sector says "Welcome, late and last, to BigPond deciding to price at a non-monopoly mark-up on its true underlying costs" - this is a world the rest of us have been living in for a decade already. Bring it on.

However, on the other hand, there is the issue of the wholesale access price provided to access ADSL2+ ports and voice services on infrastructure owned by Telstra, through Telstra Wholesale, which are located in monopoly geographic areas.

The wholesale access price provided to the market by Telstra still contains a large monopoly mark-up against the true cost of providing wholesale ADSL2+ and voice line rental offerings.

There isn't any ambiguity here - when BigPond made these aggressive downward shifts in retail price, they should have been accompanied concurrently with a corresponding downward shift in the wholesale access price to the Telstra Wholesale network. They were not.

There is no doubt that this 'price squeeze' is due to intentional inaction - as this is the third time (at least) that this has happened since the year 2000, its not appropriate for Telstra to claim this to be either surprising nor hard to understand.

The reason why this matters is that Telstra is, and remains, the unique holder of Substantial Market Power as a monopoly provider of voice and ADSL2+ services for at least half of the entire Australian population. Because of its monopoly status, its activities fall under provisions of the Trade Practices Act through which Telstra has seen ACCC enforcement action via Competition Notices in the past.

We have seen this movie before, and we know how it ends. As for previous such occasions, we expect to see an exercise in denial - or claims that this is a situation that requires 'analysis' for some time, followed by an appropriate pricing adjustment right on the cusp of ACCC enforcement action to force the issue.

This pantomime and delay allows BigPond the maximum possible window to rescue some of its lost market share in the meantime.

It is, however, a clear demonstration that when Telstra speaks of competing 'fairly', they are using a different definition of 'fair' than I would use.

This is the sort of anti-competitive behaviour that underscores how vital it is that there is ultimately either structural separation of Telstra or the completion of the level playing field of the NBN - or preferably both.

Copyright © iTnews.com.au . All rights reserved.


Internode, iiNet respond to Telstra price "aggression"
"The copper network is buggered.Why is it that in all the financial dicussions of NBN no one includes the cost of replacing the decrepit copper network. Talk to any Tlestra tech. Just recently ..."
By majac
 
 
 
Comments: 22
ptconsult
Aug 18, 2010 10:03 AM
David Thodey is a slippery snake...
meski
Aug 18, 2010 10:58 AM
@Ptconsult: He must have some bad points, though.
Curtis Bayne
Aug 18, 2010 12:25 PM
"Imagine a state-supported monopoly wheat supplier entering the retail bread market and selling bread for less than they are willing to sell wheat to other bakeries. It's just not on."

You mean something like a state-owned fiber monopoly selling access using taxpayer dollars to fund a deployment which sells access below the cost of reasonable investment amortization that no private company can compete with, steamrolling independent investment in the telecommunications industry.

Who'da thunk it.
schneider
Aug 18, 2010 2:13 PM
Curtis, May I say that is the BEST and most concise comment about the NBN. Well done!
sydney
Aug 18, 2010 2:35 PM
Looks like the accc, isnt fall;ing for the competitors tears , iinet is showing they can compete all the time, with thier new plans, looks like the competition is very sneaky , trying to make as much profit that can by suing the accc
sydney
Aug 18, 2010 2:35 PM
by using the accc,
Mikeinnc
Aug 18, 2010 2:54 PM
"You mean something like a state-owned fibre monopoly selling access using taxpayer dollars to fund a deployment which sells access below the cost of reasonable investment amortisation that no private company can compete with, steamrolling independent investment in the telecommunications industry."

You just don't get it, do you? The investment you so capriciously dismiss is *infrastructure* that no commercial telecommunications company has shown the slightest interest in deploying. Infrastructure, in case you hadn't noticed, is what Governments do. Your argument is about as pathetic as claiming that we should have two or three roads between major towns, all running parallel to each other. When I read it, I'm reminded of a famous quote by Mark Twain - "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. "

And if that's the 'best and most concise comment about the NBN' you've read, Schneider, you'd be better off living by Mark Twain's maxim, too.
marcusg
Aug 18, 2010 3:25 PM
Mikeinnc, I agree, but the whole NBN has never been costed correctly, never been fully reviewed with view to Telstra's involvement (or not) and never provided clear costs (and benefits - like speed) to the consumer.

Any industry welcomes competition. For too long Telstra has had a stranglehold on the market. The NBN should provide a more level playing field, but without full disclousure this appears another big spend by the ALP with little thought.
RDEFCON1
Aug 18, 2010 3:32 PM
@Mikeinnc

There's plenty of infrastructure that the government doesn't provide. And when they do provide it, they often don't charge for it in a wholesale market (eg. roads). NBN is clearly a different case from other government infrastructure because it is structured differently, as a state-owned monopoly company entering a market where private companies already compete.

If you can't actually articulate a coherent argument, don't cover it up by criticising the intelligence of the people you don't agree with. Urging your intellectual opponents to remain silent instead of encouraging them to put their point of view, and then putting a rational case to the contrary, just indicates to the rest of us that you in fact don't have such a case to put.

IMHO - Curtis Bayne makes a fair point.
Ice
Aug 18, 2010 5:02 PM
@Rdefcon1
a quick question are you a telstra share holder
anonymous
Aug 18, 2010 5:08 PM

@RDEFCON1, maybe you should read Michael Malone's comment more carefully, because he is the one making the fair point.

You claim that NBN is somehow a different case to other infrastructure projects, but without providing any real evidence to support this interesting assertion.

In the absence of a national network available to all carriers on equal terms, it's hard to see how the telling points about anti-competitive behaviour made by both Michael Malone and Simon Hackett can ever be effectively addressed.
NKX
Aug 18, 2010 5:39 PM
As a subscriber forced to pay twice the price, for one third of the quota, thanks to no ISP being willing/able to provide adequate infrastructure in my area, I am eagerly awaiting the NBN and see it as a VERY worthwhile project.

Adding DSLAMs and backhauls aren't cheap, and it needs to be worth the investment for the ISP to even consider it. Until the threshold is reached (usually requiring more than one hundred subscribers, for that single ISP, attached to that exchange), ISPs are pretty much forced to used Telstra's wholesale product. That in itself is perfectly fine, however, offering considerably lower wholesale prices to your own retail arm in order to kill competition... that is not fine. That deserves the "split Telstra" call and ACCC cases. Entirely.

The NBN will offer more than just broadband internet. It will offer digital services coverage to almost the entire nation. It will offer wholesale access to the infrastructure required for digital TV, subscription and/or video-on-demand services, further telecommunication developments (videophones etc), as well as other data services. It's a brilliant idea, and about time!

Currently not a single ISP (read as "private telecommunications company") is willing to roll out infrastructure to my metro-location exchange. How then, can we rely on the private sector to service rural communities, or those affected by RIM/PG systems with limited subscriber numbers? It is not in their best interest (or shareholders) to even consider it. As such, those areas are neglected... year after year. Not even Telecom/Telstra did the job.

We need the NBN so that the ISPs can become truly competitive and benefit the consumer, starting from a level playing field - the National Broadband Network infrastructure. We also require a "fair" competitive retail sector for services, and secret-handshake deals between a wholesale and retail arm of the same company is simply not on. I agree with Malone and Hackett one hundred percent!
Mikeinnc
Aug 18, 2010 5:52 PM
Well, let me say up front that I AM a Telstra shareholder. But you know what? I'm also a proud Australian - and IMHO, I'd rather that MY Government spends my taxes - and, yes, even goes into debt - to fund essential infrastructure if it means that my children - and their children - have a society that has something to look forward to, rather than just a fabulous mining history to look back on.

It is farcical to claim that we are not charged for the use of infrastructure. OK, roads have a hidden charge rather than a clearly articulated one (road taxes; fuel taxes?), but water? Electricity? Gas? Airports? Do I need to go on? No one ever suggests we should have two or three electricity transmission systems, or two water pipes to each dwelling. Why, then, is there this ridiculous argument about telecommunications infrastructure? The huge issue is that Telsta should have been separated at birth. The blame for this lies equally with both sides of politics - they both had their murky and underhand games to play. But only one side of politics now appears to have the foresight and long term plans to correct that - oh, so plainly obvious - error. There simply is no place for competing infrastructure.

I have absolutely no problems with ALL of the telecommunication providers having equal and unfettered access to that infrastructure, just like we all have equal access to roads and bridges. What I do have a problem with is having the big boys of telecommunications cherry picking what infrastructure they will fund - and when, and where, and then locking their competitors out. Only a Government has a social conscience, and only a Government can and should build out the underlying infrastructure. That's what taxes are for! So to claim that "...that no private company can compete with, steamrolling independent investment in the telecommunications industry" is somehow an issue we really need to be concerned about is politically unbridled nonsense of the worst kind.
Mikeinnc
Aug 18, 2010 6:41 PM
MarcusG, you wrote "..the whole NBN has never been costed correctly, never been fully reviewed with view to Telstra's involvement (or not) and never provided clear costs (and benefits - like speed) to the consumer."

Although so much of the arguments for and against the NBN have centred on speed, I personally do not believe that is a major issue at this time. What we need to realise is that fibre has a virtually unlimited bandwidth. In reality, many - most? - early subscribers won't see any major speed difference when they connect to the NBN. Access costs will initially see to that. However, when, in the future, the costs decrease and there is an increasing requirement for higher and higher speeds - and both these issues are as inevitable as night follows day - ONLY fibre will have the headroom to take up the slack.

The problem is that these arguments all centre on NOW, and the NBN is more about the future. The current copper access network is failing fast - a function of understandably limited investment by Telstra and sheer age. It has to be replaced and ever week we put it off, the problems increase. Only fibre can replace it - thank goodness, no-one from any side of politics actually recommends a new copper build - and we may as well do it now, in one hit and take advantage of the obvious economies of scale created by the build-out.

You also suggest that the NBN has '..never been costed correctly'. While you might be technically correct, how can we accurately cost the social and productive benefits of infrastructure such as this? Again, many of these 'cost' arguments centre about "now" or a ROI over a short and limited commercial lifespan, rather than the 50+ years this network is likely to be in use.

As Michael Quigley said in his speech today (http://www.itnews.com.au/News/229175,quigleys-big-stand-the-full-speech.aspx/0)
"I'm sure that was the case when the Overland Telegraph and the Copper Access Network were proposed. They would have had their doubters and skeptics and I'm sure Charles Todd had to - from time to time - defend the Overland Telegraph." I wonder if they were "fully costed"? Would anyone argue today that they hadn't produced the most fabulous return on their investment - socially, nationally and financially? I think not! Financially costed? Perhaps not. Socially costed? Without a doubt!
marcusg
Aug 19, 2010 12:11 AM
@ Mikeinnc

Unfortunately the arguement that the NBN is just like the installation of the Overland Telegraph or Copper Access Network is not relevant. Neither of these projects had existing network structures to deal with, nor competing commerical interests or technologies to address.

All I'm asking for is a proper plan. I'm tired of governments - any government - running projects without proper guidelines. All projects must come under the scrutiny of the public forum and not be rammed through with patriot talk coupled with nation building rhetoric.
JohnSmith
Aug 19, 2010 9:13 AM
Michael Malone is the most arrogant business leader in the internet market today. He just eminates that the ACCC should protect his massive profits that fund his aquisition trail which if anything only reduces competition in the marketplace, his arrogant hyopcrisy is second to NONE. These ISPs are competiing just fine and reaping large profits to match. Everyone is pissing and moaning about protecting ISP profit margins and yet you dont consider yourselves, the consumer in any part. Telstras aggressive pricing regime is excellent for the consumer and the other fat profit pigs need to stop buying expensive perth mansion and telsa cars and respond in the interest of the consumer.
Good on Telstra for shaking up the market, I for one are going back to Telstra because of it, and if the siutation changes, I will change again. Thats competition!
advocate
Aug 19, 2010 9:15 AM
It is interesting that Malone from iiNet uses the $49.95 BigPond Elite plan to ram home his point that Telstra Wholesale charge more than that for a port.

But let's have a look at that plan in detail and what conditions BigPond put on it if you want to buy it, it's called the BigPond Multiple Product benefit - the only way you can get the $49.95 50 gig Elite plan.

1. The contract is for 24 months.
2. You must have a Telstra fixed line full service phone.
3. You must have one additional service such as BigPond Wireless, FOXTEL from Telstra or a Telstra post paid mobile service.
4. The combined monthly access fee of the above must $89 or more.
5. Uploads are counted.

Does not really make that $49.95 BB Elite Plan look so good in isolation does it, I am sure the ACCC will look at all the conditions BigPond place on the plan and compare them with competitor ADSL2+ plans where no such conditions exist.



Edited by advocate: 19/8/2010 09:20:19 AM
advocate
Aug 19, 2010 9:41 AM
Hackett from Internode makes this point.

"However, on the other hand, there is the issue of the wholesale access price provided to access ADSL2+ ports and voice services on infrastructure owned by Telstra, through Telstra Wholesale, which are located in monopoly geographic areas."

I would like to know what a 'monopoly geographic area' is, it's nothing the ACCC has defined, perhaps Simon could list them for us on a map of Australia.

Perhaps they are all those areas where competitors fear to tread, including SingTel/Optus, you know where there is a limited customer base and it is not commercially smart to put their own gear in those exchanges and run at 50% capacity or less on the ports.

Perhaps he could also ask his Optus wholesale partner why they have stopped their DSLAM rollout which was one way his dependence on Telstra Wholesale ADSL2+ ports could have been alleviated.



Edited by advocate: 19/8/2010 01:33:34 PM
deteego
Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM
advocate wrote:

1. The contract is for 24 months.

Almost every plan of this sought is contracted for 24 months (or is more expensive when its not)
advocate wrote:

2. You must have a Telstra fixed line full service phone.

Same with other competitors (iiNet/Internode/Optus) who offer such cheap plans if you bundle with their phone line service
advocate wrote:
3. You must have one additional service such as BigPond Wireless, FOXTEL from Telstra or a Telstra post paid mobile service.

Not the deal with iiNet/Internode (since they don't offer such a service), but Optus/TPG is in the same boat here in this regard
advocate wrote:
4. The combined monthly access fee of the above must $89 or more.

Same as ^
advocate wrote:

5. Uploads are counted.

TPG's latest such plans also count uploads (as does Optus).

The only real difference is being tied up to the extra service (Foxten, Bigpond Mobile, Bigpond Wireless), but you also have to read the rest of his argument

Edited by deteego: 19/8/2010 12:43:43 PM
advocate
Aug 19, 2010 1:25 PM
"Almost every plan of this sought is contracted for 24 months (or is more expensive when its not)"

Incorrect, in terms of contract length all that varies is in the installation cost, for example for $49.99 with TPG you get ADSL2+ 180 gig , with zero installation fee if you contract for 18 months.

iiNet has 100GB for $49.95 with a $29.95 phone plan and a installation fee of $79.95.
Netspace has 75GB for $49.99 with $29.95 phone and the installation fee is zero if you contract for 12 months, installation fee varies for shorter contract lengths.

"Not the deal with iiNet/Internode (since they don't offer such a service), but Optus/TPG is in the same boat here in this regard"

No they are not this same boat in this regard at all, what are you on about?

The Bigpond requirement of a minimum access fee of $89 is the same as who exactly?

"The only real difference is being tied up to the extra service (Foxten, Bigpond Mobile, Bigpond Wireless)"

Some real difference!! just putting the word 'only' in front of it doesn't make it disappear.

"but you also have to read the rest of his argument"

Yes and...?

Edited by advocate: 19/8/2010 01:28:43 PM
djambalawa
Aug 19, 2010 3:28 PM
Just for interest I transferred over from internode to the new bigpond 200GB $159 bundle plan and I noticed that when I look at my plan details the actual ADSL2 part of the bundle says its $99.95.

Internode couldn't give me ADSL2 from my exchange and the unlimited phone calls to anywhere nationally were too good to pass up in a household with 3 teenagers!
majac
Aug 19, 2010 8:01 PM
The copper network is buggered.Why is it that in all the financial dicussions of NBN no one includes the cost of replacing the decrepit copper network. Talk to any Tlestra tech. Just recently 100metres of cable had to be replaced in our street. The techs said they had known there was a problem for years, but routine maintenance was cancelled donkeys years ago. Now they only come out when it breaks. And if they can fix problems with plastic bags and gaffer tape, thats what they do. This tech said they stopped maintenance years ago when they though wireless would replace copper.He said the whole copper network will have to be replaced if we want to continue using it as our prime delivery method. But when people say just use what we have, the cost of maintaining the existing copper are ignored. If the copper has to be replaced, surely its better to replace it with fibre - not more copper
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