Conroy feared giving Telstra $20bn war chest

 

Four Corners to reveal cherry-picking drivers.

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has revealed to the ABC that fears the national broadband network could be cherry-picked by Telstra pre-dated the current $36 billion plan announced two years ago.

Conroy's claims will be aired on ABC's investigative 4 Corners program tonight, according to a report on ABC's AM program today.

According to the ABC, the program will reveal the alleged reasons Labor scrapped its NBN1 proposal – a fibre-to-the-node network that would have used Telstra's copper for last-mile access.

According to the ABC, "expert" legal advice suggested the Government would have had to pay up to $20 billion compensation to Telstra for "misappropriating" the incumbent's copper under its FTTN plan.

The Government feared Telstra would use that money to cherry-pick profitable suburbs by rolling out a competing – but higher-speed - fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP).

"The Government could spend $15 billion to build a fibre-to-the-node network, pay $15-20 billion to Telstra for compensation, and then Telstra could take that money and build a fibre-to-the-home network past you and strand 70 per cent of $15 billion on the side of the road," Conroy was said to have told the program.

Former Telstra group managing director of public policy Phil Burgess was said to have told the program that the Government's fears were well founded.

Telstra continued to argue recently that it should have the right to cherry-pick profitable areas before NBN Co reaches them.

The Government had sought to prevent that from occurring in the NBN Access Bill.

Anti-cherry-picking provisions were seen as essential to NBN's business model, which cross-subsidised infrastructure rollout in the bush with higher prices in city areas.

That cross-subsidy would be placed in jeopardy if private operators rolled out competing fibre infrastructure in city areas, then undercut the NBN Co's wholesale prices (since they did not have the same requirement to build out expensive regional networks).

The proposed cherry-picking rules came under sustained criticism from the industry, many of whom sought exemptions.

Conroy eventually watered down the rules to have them pass through the Senate.

Copyright © iTnews.com.au . All rights reserved.


Conroy feared giving Telstra $20bn war chest
"myself in own post wrote: Yes I thought you would avoid that one, nice side step HC. Not a side step just reaffirming what I already said. Once again you passed on the opportunity to ..."
By HubertCumberdale
 
 
 
Comments: 25
HubertCumberdale
Apr 11, 2011 6:34 PM
Of course we knew this all already, this really is ancient history and the current NBN plan was the right decision but dont expect any of this to sink into the thick cement heads of the anti-NBN brigade. All they see are big scary $$$ signs and even scarier mbps numbers... hmmm I wonder how the Australian will spin this story in a few days.
DJ
Apr 12, 2011 5:28 AM
It's hardly about the spin put on this project by media outlets.

It's about:
1. If the government has the right plan to roll out fast broadband services.
2. If the cost is justified for the infrastructure planned.
3. If this project is going to add value to Australian businesses and the economy.

I am all for fast broadband to my home, office, etc, but in light of the current economic climate and other humanitarian issues we are facing, are we in a position to afford this?

Maybe a hybrid solution is good for now, with the future invested in something that will produce a financial return quicker, which can then be directed towards newer more affordable technologies.

DJ.
Rossyduck
Apr 12, 2011 8:21 AM
I am all for curtailing Telstra's market dominance but every indication is that they are giving this all to Telstra anyway ? - and if not NBN Co will become PMG 2 so we are now worse off.

But that is not the point - why spend our tax $$ (and take them away from the research scientists) when someone else was prepared to build it anyway ??
MerariSchroeder
Apr 12, 2011 8:23 AM
What a load of rubbish! "The Government could spend $15 billion to build a fibre-to-the-node network, pay $15-20 billion..."

Or they could have part invested with Telstra (not NBNCo), in a FTTN network and legislated for long term structural separation (Retail/Wholesale). They could have at least stipulated from the start that all FTTN services through Telstra be legislated under a new Telstra sub-arm from the get go.

So instead of using policy and political power, they've wasted an enormous amount of tax dollars.

@DJ, good comments there. I also believe that somewhere along the line of billions of dollars there is a point of no return. A point where one can spend too much and never make a profit. The less we spend the less likely we'll end up with a white elephant. If we put the current NBN plan on a scale of "bang for buck", we would currently be at the end of the scale, the most expensive plan delivering little incremental benefit over other plans.
Tessa
Apr 12, 2011 9:23 AM
All this is to get the public to think the Gillard party is looking after the people.Don't be fooled.Telstra has the market and will keep it.This Government likes to spend money.money we don't have anymore because of all the waste over the past 4 years.This nbn will cost everyone a lot more than we pay now.
mrhasbean
Apr 13, 2011 7:57 AM
So again I ask all of these anti-NBN contenders, where do you live and work?

I work from my home office in a regional part of Australia with a population of around 300,000 people, in internet related businesses, one of which had to outsource ALL of it's file manipulation work to STUDENTS in Canada, the UK and parts of Asia because there was no possible way within any economically viable constraints to obtain a data service fast enough to handle the requirements. And NONE of the telcos have any plans for upgrading our service. Yet these students, on their home connections that ALL cost less than we are paying for our incredibly bad aDSL, could move quantities of data in an hour that would literally take us a day.

So how many businesses are currently in the same boat and outsourcing a lot of work - jobs that could be held by Aussies - simply because there is no infrastructure in place. From our discussions over the past few years both locally within Australia, and with agencies and individuals overseas, there are tens of thousands of jobs we're losing. And people talk about economic viability?

It's maybe about time some people got out of their metropolitan ivory towers and experienced life in the regions before putting forward their tainted opinions...
nothappy
Apr 13, 2011 1:05 PM
Mrhasbeen has missed the point NBN is not a commercially viable and never will be i wont be putting it on unless they disconnect my tpg adls. The problem is the country folk require an up grade of internet service, not the city i have fast cheap internet now. how many times are we going to wire up Australia ( ie cable tv )30 Mbps is available now on cable and Telstra has 100 Mbps being tested. country folk need the internet up grade now not wait 10 years for the fibre to roll out. Another bit of bad news for NBN junkies young people use wireless 3G now, BUT 4g wireless is faster just needs a tower equipment upgrade which is available this year, Farmers and country kids are not idiots they will use a laptop and iphones 4g if it is available. The early death of NBN
anonymous
Apr 13, 2011 1:40 PM

What is it about the NBN that brings out the I'm-all-right-Jack, bugger-you syndrome in some people?

The wellnamed @nothappy above claims to have fast cheap internet now. Nice for them, but there are a hell of a lot of urban dwellers, including many in our capital cities, who still have to contend with appalling access standards.

Then we can include all the other regional and rural dwellers who probably need good access even more than their urban cousins, because they also have to overcome the tyranny of distance for their personal and business needs.

And nothappy's comments about the rural wonders of 3/4G are the funniest of all, because they sound so ignorant of the reality involved. NBN is the way to go, with or without the politics of opposition.
HubertCumberdale
Apr 13, 2011 3:08 PM
Tessa wrote:
money we don't have anymore

Got a source to back up that claim?


Tessa wrote:
This nbn will cost everyone a lot more than we pay now.

Got a source to back up that claim?


nothappy wrote:
Mrhasbeen has missed the point

The only ones that have missed the point are the anti-NBN zealots who sign up, post once and then you never hear from them again...


nothappy wrote:
NBN is not a commercially viable and never will be

I have a magical crystal ball too.


nothappy wrote:
i wont be putting it on unless they disconnect my tpg adls. The problem is the country folk require an up grade of internet service, not the city i have fast cheap internet now. how many times are we going to wire up Australia ( ie cable tv )30 Mbps is available now on cable and Telstra has 100 Mbps being tested. country folk need the internet up grade now not wait 10 years for the fibre to roll out. Another bit of bad news for NBN junkies young people use wireless 3G now, BUT 4g wireless is faster just needs a tower equipment upgrade which is available this year, Farmers and country kids are not idiots they will use a laptop and iphones 4g if it is available. The early death of NBN

This incoherent wall of text is not really worth bothering with but I will point out if you want to deride the NBN it helps if you stick to one thing at a time rather than mix up non-facts and other useless lines in an indecipherable word salad.
advocate
Apr 16, 2011 11:32 AM
anonymous wrote:

What is it about the NBN that brings out the I'm-all-right-Jack, bugger-you syndrome in some people?

Not sure if you meant that to apply to the pro-NBN posters or the anti-NBN posters, both could apply.

The wellnamed @nothappy above claims to have fast cheap internet now. Nice for them, but there are a hell of a lot of urban dwellers, including many in our capital cities, who still have to contend with appalling access standards.

Indeed, but you don't need $43 billion of FTTH to fix that.

Then we can include all the other regional and rural dwellers who probably need good access even more than their urban cousins, because they also have to overcome the tyranny of distance for their personal and business needs.

Indeed, but you don't need $43 billion of FTTH to fix that.

And nothappy's comments about the rural wonders of 3/4G are the funniest of all, because they sound so ignorant of the reality involved.

Indeed, but you don't need $43 billion of FTTH to fix that.

advocate
Apr 16, 2011 11:39 AM
mrhasbean wrote:

I work from my home office in a regional part of Australia with a population of around 300,000 people, in internet related businesses, one of which had to outsource ALL of it's file manipulation work to STUDENTS in Canada, the UK and parts of Asia

Was all of this work outsourced to students in regional and rural parts of those countries?

And NONE of the telcos have any plans for upgrading our service.

What service are you on with which ISP, a residential service or a business grade service?

anonymous
Apr 16, 2011 1:43 PM

@advocate "Not sure if you meant that to apply to the pro-NBN posters or the anti-NBN posters, both could apply."

No, it seems to be only some of the naysayers who ignorantly run their bugger-you responses. Some other naysayers give much more sensible reasons for their concerns, and of course the pro NBN supporters are the most intelligent of all. ;-)

"Indeed, but you don't need $43 billion of FTTH to fix that."

Yes, to provide for the future needs of everybody, we do.

What is it about NATIONAL Broadband Network that you apparently are determined not to understand?

HubertCumberdale
Apr 16, 2011 6:52 PM
anonymous wrote:

What is it about the NBN that brings out the I'm-all-right-Jack, bugger-you syndrome in some people?

I'll explain. See the average anti-NBN zealot is usually a lot like your stereotypical used car sales man, you go to buy a car from them and point out the flaws with the car you want to buy and they'll say "just use a bit of duct tape to fix that", this is how Malcolm Turnbull operates and they seem to be aping this behavior:

ADSL2+ top speed is 24mbps = Everyone that can get ADSL has access to 24mbps speeds.
Some people can get 100mbps HFC = We already have 100mbps speeds for anyone that wants it.
The rest = Wireless will fix that and forget about upload speeds as they are not important.
etc

They grasp at straws as much as they can because they know their arguments against it dont hold much weight.

It is funny though how the speed they get just happens to be the right amount, I wonder if they would ever consider going back to dial-up. That too was once good enough.
advocate
Apr 18, 2011 9:10 AM
HubertCumberdale wrote:

I'll explain.

Then you proceed to explain nothing, quoting rubbish 'duct tape' anecdotes as being the alternative solution when it is not.

They grasp at straws as much as they can because they know their arguments against it dont hold much weight.

Well the arguments are quite strong and hold plenty of weight, especially the anticipated costs blowouts caused by the failed tender process, but then the pro-NBN zealots ignore all of that or make up some spin about it shows how it is being 'done properly'.

Oh I see the delayed construction caused by the delayed tender process which causes delays to the revenue stream is all part of the grand master plan is it?

It is funny though how the speed they get just happens to be the right amount,

Yeah it's funny that most of the residents in the first and longest running pilot sites in Tasmania gave the NBN a miss 'must be the right amount' also.

Ace
Apr 18, 2011 10:05 AM
I'd be interested to know what you mean by 'most' in regard to Tasmania NBN take up @advocate. If the expected uptake is say 50%, then 'most' would be 76% or greater. I assume there are actual numbers somewhere, but I haven't seen them.

I see today that you have a new enemy @advocate. The UN now says 'Three to five years from now, Australia will be No. 1 in broadband in the world....'. I assume the UN must also be dreadfully mistaken, or that Mr Conroy has done an amazing sell-job of the NBN. I think we all know what an incredible word-smith and charmer Mr Conroy can be.
advocate
Apr 18, 2011 11:06 AM
I am glad you brought up Tasmania Ace.

THE first rollout of the National Broadband Network in Tasmania is a squandered opportunity and one of the worst examples of pork-barrelling, says the state's senior business leader.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/business-chief-slams-nbn-rollout/story-e6frg6n6-1226040640114

oh dear.

Nice spin on the UN has approved the NBN Ace.

One persons opinion who is the secretary-general of the International Telecommunications Union, oh surprise surprise he supports more work for his members. lol

Edited by advocate: 18/4/2011 11:08:06 AM

Edited by advocate: 18/4/2011 11:15:28 AM
Ace
Apr 18, 2011 12:12 PM
Oh, nice spin by your 'business chief' @advocate. lol! (although I notice he commented that '...the NBN was a great concept...', it just didn't go direct to his customers first, heh.)
HubertCumberdale
Apr 18, 2011 12:30 PM
myself in own post wrote:

Then you proceed to explain nothing, quoting rubbish 'duct tape' anecdotes as being the alternative solution when it is not.

Well the arguments are quite strong blah blah blah


So you agree the alternative solutions are rubbish? Speaking of rubbish and anecdotes...


Oh I see the delayed construction caused by the delayed tender process which causes delays to the revenue stream is all part of the grand master plan is it?

Yeah it's funny that most of the residents in the first and longest running pilot sites in Tasmania gave the NBN a miss 'must be the right amount' also.


Indeed.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/business-chief-slams-nbn-rollout/story-e6frg6n6-1226040640114

LOL, I hope you dont expect anyone to take you seriously anymore after posting a link to The Australian.

advocate
Apr 18, 2011 2:02 PM
Ace wrote:

Oh, nice spin by your 'business chief'

It's not my business chief, I didn't write the article.

(although I notice he commented that '...the NBN was a great concept...',

Really grasping at straws at trying to get some good news out of that critical piece eh Ace?

BTW How that's 'UN story' of yours going , the back pedal on the bicycle going fast enough?

advocate
Apr 18, 2011 2:07 PM
HubertCumberdale wrote:

So you agree the alternative solutions are rubbish? Speaking of rubbish and anecdotes...

Umm what? - I think your argument has come off the rails well and truly, you have seriously lost the plot.

LOL, I hope you dont expect anyone to take you seriously anymore after posting a link to The Australian.

So the Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chairman didn't say that? - what information have you got to support that claim?

HubertCumberdale
Apr 18, 2011 2:25 PM
myself in own post wrote:
Umm what? - I think your argument has come off the rails well and truly, you have seriously lost the plot.

Oh I'm sorry you seem to be having trouble following your own posts again.

You said: quoting rubbish 'duct tape' anecdotes as being the alternative solution when it is not. So you agree that the alternative solutions are rubbish? True or false? (Hint: it is a question to clarify not a statement)


So the Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chairman didn't say that?

I'm not saying they did or didn't say anything, I'm saying YOU have lost all credibility by relying on The Australian as a source of information.
Ace
Apr 18, 2011 2:51 PM
I'm not sure what your point is regarding the UN story, but since you like links to newspaper articles, here is one:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/uns-communication-agency-backs-nbn-20110417-1djoo.html

Perhaps you're suggesting the NBN should be installed for free by volunteers? Seems a bit unlikely.

You consistently miss or ignore the point that no-one of any note thinks the NBN is a bad thing. Sure there are arguments around the politics and who is going to get what share and when, but this is simply the 'jockeying for position'. But you should be aware that the governments position may be quite different to businesses. They are about supplying services to people. Businesses are about making money. It's a subtle, but important difference.
advocate
Apr 18, 2011 3:32 PM
HubertCumberdale wrote:

I'm not saying they did or didn't say anything,

Yes I thought you would avoid that one, nice side step HC.

I'm saying YOU have lost all credibility by relying on The Australian as a source of information.

Once again you passed on the opportunity to explain what was wrong with the content of that article.

We all know exactly whose credibility is lost here.

Keep tap dancing HC, the pro NBN smoke & mirrors show isn't over yet.
advocate
Apr 18, 2011 3:40 PM
Ace wrote:

You consistently miss or ignore the point that no-one of any note thinks the NBN is a bad thing.

Well they do, it's just you and others prefer to ignore it and keep your head in the 'FTTH or nothing' sand pit.

But you should be aware that the governments position may be quite different to businesses. They are about supplying services to people. Businesses are about making money.

Indeed, private businesses will resell NBN and make a nice fat margin on it, otherwise why would they bother?

It's a subtle, but important difference.

It won't be subtle, taxpayers pay for the most expensive FTTH rollout in the world, then they pay ISP's all over again to use it, you know the saying 'there is a sucker born every minute' but that example is a classic.

HubertCumberdale
Apr 18, 2011 4:08 PM
myself in own post wrote:

Yes I thought you would avoid that one, nice side step HC.

Not a side step just reaffirming what I already said.

Once again you passed on the opportunity to explain what was wrong with the content of that article.

It's an article on the The Australian, if you cant see any thing wrong with that then as I've said dont expect anyone to take you seriously.

We all know exactly whose credibility is lost here.

Indeed...

Keep tap dancing HC, the pro NBN smoke & mirrors show isn't over yet.

So a "$50billion" project is all of the sudden a "smoke & mirrors show"? You dont think too much of that taxpayers money do you?

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