Optus targets NBN wireless fans and fibre critics

 

Collective amnesia grips industry.

Optus took aim at months of "ill-informed debate" over wireless and fibre infrastructure, criticising policy makers and sections of the telecommunications industry alike for their "collective amnesia" when shaping Australia's broadband future.

In a significant deviation from the CommsDay Summit script - which had so far steered clear of controversy and focused mostly on future applications - Optus director of government and corporate affairs Maha Krishnapillai took aim at NBN critics who he accused of failing to learn from the past.

"The elephant in the room isn't the NBN; in fact, it's the outbreak of collective amnesia that has gripped our industry over the past couple of years," Krishnapillai said.

"I would love to talk about the applications of the future rather than this but we need to get the lessons of the past right.

"Let's at least try and establish the facts... rather than putting [forward] speculation and a lot of ill-informed debate from people who, frankly, should know a hell of a lot better in terms of what's happened in our sector in the last few years."

Several of Krishnapillai's apparent targets were due to present at the summit later today.

Krishnapillai addressed calls by the Alliance for Affordable Broadband - a collective of wireless and backhaul operators - who argue a case for "infrastructure-based competition (rather than infrastructure monopolies with retail competition).

"People talk about letting infrastructure competition work. Maybe you should learn a lesson from history," Krishnapillai said.

"We have empirical evidence of what happened in the late nineties where Optus rolled out a pay TV network down streets in suburban Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

"Telstra went down the same streets, carpet-bombed the business case and effectively Optus and Telstra wrote off over $1 billion through that period. We were losing $300 million a year through that period at Optus.

"So for those that are very brave to ask - and this is always interesting when people tell other people how to spend their money - for those who are very brave to say we should let infrastructure competition continue, [I say] throw money into it.

"We've certainly seen empirical evidence that that will not work and that's one of the main reasons we support the NBN."

Krishnapillai also mocked suggestions that wireless technologies were a suitable alternative to fibre.

"I hear lots of things from companies that don't even own wireless networks, let alone have spectrum, and [from] other companies who are clearly lobbying very hard to get government subsidies for rolling out those wireless networks, that wireless is in fact the way forward," he said.

"Optus has a very great faith in the future of wireless and in its ability to offer greater broadband capability and, in particular, mobility attached to that capability. But it will always be a complementary service for fixed broadband.

"There are a range of shared network issues, spectrum et cetera that will make it a complementary service. It'll lag fibre in technical capability over time, and it's unikely to be suited to many future applications requiring dedicated and symmetric high capacity access to multiple end users."

He also urged "those who don't actually own wireless networks... to think about the reality of 93 percent-plus access to high speed broadband and what that might look like environmentally" - a reference to the base station density that would be required to deliver very high-speed wireless broadband services that would be somewhere equivalent to those capable of being realised by fibre.

Krishnapillai reserved a special mention for critics who questioned the lifespan of fibre architectures.

"There are still some people querying that there's going to be some new technology that's going to replace fibre and as recently as yesterday people saying that fibre is no longer the technology of the future," he said.

"I'm not exactly sure what parallel universe people live on but fibre will be the way of the future."

Copyright © iTnews.com.au . All rights reserved.


Optus targets NBN wireless fans and fibre critics
"scooter wrote: Intelligence, knowledge or understanding are obviously not a prerequisite for posting on this forum. How can you possibly respond to such a profound argument, other than to ..."
By advocate
 
 
 
Comments: 44
sydneyla
Oct 13, 2010 7:51 AM
Maha always speaks with great sensibility but I would question the intelligence and business capacity of his fellow employees who, as he describes, could not for-see the Telstra reaction to the Optus roll-out of their cable. Lesson learnt Maha is, if you poke a bear in the eye with a stick just make sure the stick is longer than the bears arm.
DRUPS
Oct 13, 2010 8:17 AM
Well now, thats Telstra & Optus support the NBN. Optus now puts some real facts into play unlike all these arm chair experts & politically biased people sitting at home posting utter untruths about the NBN & its techonology. We now have it straight from the horses mouth. A major network operater who has both 3G & HFC & fibre networks tells it like it is.
Rossyduck
Oct 13, 2010 9:04 AM
Looks like Optus have read the writting on the wall and are running scared. Talk about public backdown and attempting to curry favour. What happeend to the cries of wireless via "Opel is best". What happened to the cries that the industry/ legislative structure needs to be reformed... ?. Have Optus now just given up and are bending (over?) with the wind. The money he is talking about is my tax $$ and my kids's kids tax $$$.
Francis
Oct 13, 2010 9:10 AM
For once I agree with Maha, but he is a fool if he could not see the opposition (Telstra) reacting to Optus's HFC Plan. It is the same in any market. You do one thing and the opposition will always try to go one better. in this case Telstra went further than one better by burying the majority of its cable leaving Optus to carry the lions share of the considerable Flack on overhead cables. (NBN TAKE NOTE) In fact I and many of my friends and neighbours refuse to even entertain an Optus connection because of their overhead cable and their heavy handed response to those protesting.
This was compounded by their then CEO Bob Mansfield stating "when the power lines go underground we will work with the Power companies and bury our cable at the same time." Then in 2002 when the NSW IPART held an enquiry into burying power lines Optus said in both Private as well as in Public meetings that "should they be forced to bury their cable that they would pull out of the market, not just in Sydney but in Brisbane and Melbourne too." Thereby effectively holding a gun at the head of the NSW Government. But the real hypocrisy is that in Singapore where their parent company (Singtel which is owned by the Singaporean Government) is head-quartered there are no overhead cables.
This smacks of Double Standards.
noobi
Oct 13, 2010 9:39 AM
francis, telstra had no problems with the over head cables because they just ran them in and tied the complaining councils up in legal red tape,Optus had to stop because being a start up company they didnt have the resources to do the same,optus was not owned by the singaporean government during the HFC roll out and telstra have alot more HFC hanging on poles than Optus by a very long shot
Tailgator
Oct 13, 2010 9:55 AM
Nice little maxim there Syd. However you miss the point, that being that Telstra was prepared to incur extremely large losses and enforce the same on it's competitor to protect it's market position. In addition it directly and negatively impacted on the roll out of infrastructure, hobbled it, to the detriment of consumers access.

And that is the real point that Krishnapillai is making. The NBN will eliminate the inefficient, negative, and pointlessness of competition in basic infrastructure as so amply demonstrated by the 'cable wars'.
EMwyres
Oct 13, 2010 9:57 AM
Rossyduck - without the NBN or something similar, Australia will be so far behind the rest of the world 20 years from now, that your kids won't have the tax $$$ to give to the government!
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 10:05 AM
Krishnapillai also mocked suggestions that wireless technologies were a suitable alternative to fibre.

Ahh time the great healer, a different Government in power, a new tune to dance to.

Remember the multi billion dollar OPEL project with the Howard Government when Coonan was Communications Minister in which Optus and Elders won the contract for a nation wide WiMax wireless network for Australia.

Top hat and cane anyone?

Edited by advocate: 13/10/2010 10:08:00 AM
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 10:24 AM
Tailgator wrote:

And that is the real point that Krishnapillai is making. The NBN will eliminate the inefficient, negative, and pointlessness of competition in basic infrastructure as so amply demonstrated by the 'cable wars'.


So if Optus and Telstra bled $1 billion on the so called 'cable wars' that passed the high density lucrative population areas of our largest capitals how much will the nationwide NBN bleed then?

Edited by advocate: 13/10/2010 10:26:46 AM
Tailgator
Oct 13, 2010 10:44 AM
Advocate
So if Optus and Telstra bled $1 billion on the so called 'cable wars' that passed the high density lucrative population areas of our largest capitals how much will the nationwide NBN bleed then?

The other competitor rolling out fibre to 93% of premises is ????

Edited by Tailgator: 13/10/2010 10:48:37 AM
noelpeters
Oct 13, 2010 11:02 AM
As a taxpayer I don't believe I should have to pay for your infrastructure Mahatma.
DRUPS
Oct 13, 2010 11:03 AM
Advocate wrote:

Krishnapillai also mocked suggestions that wireless technologies were a suitable alternative to fibre.

Ahh time the great healer, a different Government in power, a new tune to dance to.

Remember the multi billion dollar OPEL project with the Howard Government when Coonan was Communications Minister in which Optus and Elders won the contract for a nation wide WiMax wireless network for Australia.

Top hat and cane anyone?

Um hello!! There was no other option proposed at that time such as a fibre to the premisis.



noelpeters
Oct 13, 2010 11:13 AM
"The NBN will eliminate the inefficient, negative, and pointlessness of competition in basic infrastructure"

On the other hand the NBN will have no pressure or incentive to improve, meaning from day one it will start to die.
sydneyla
Oct 13, 2010 11:14 AM
This is all getting a little messy and the sooner Conroy tidies it up with some concrete agreements the better. NBN Co needs to be a monopoly to have some hope of success and could not survive (without killing the poor Australian taxpayer) if Telstra and Optus remain as competitors. If the Government is willing to make the gigantic spend and believes the NBN is a must for Australians they must be prepared to pay out Telstra and Optus for their plant, equipment and customers. And no more blackmail and threat that Australians have witnessed against Telstra.
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 11:20 AM
Tailgator wrote:


The other competitor rolling out fibre to 93% of premises is ????

Telstra and Optus didn't make money from the HFC cable because of lack of uptake, and that included the FoxTel and Optus Pay TV product that in fact was the marketing driver of the HFC rollout into selected high density areas of our largest capital cities.

HFC failed because of the decidedly luke warm reception by consumers to having to pay $$ to watch TV.

On the other hand the other infrastructure rollout that has proved successful is the respective wireless rollouts by the likes of Optus, Telstra, Vodafone and Three.
The reason it is so successful is that the product range this infrastructure supports, mobile telephony and wireless data is in high demand from consumers and will be increasing so even post the NBN.

The point remains, the NBN will bleed $$ big time if uptake is low like HFC, as there is no payback to the taxpayer as such it will not be stopped because it is losing money, it is just another political tax payer funded sinkhole.

mad1k5
Oct 13, 2010 11:23 AM
Alot of people Read the tripe thats on The Australian, and most of negative comments never get seen by those who try to post there.

Sydneyla, long with alot of rubbish that gets posted on news articles by people with agenda's it doesn't matter what is said or done by politicians.

The deal with Telstra needs to get done, and NBN starts rolling, END OF STORY.
mad1k5
Oct 13, 2010 11:29 AM
Rossyduck,

If Optus was running scared because of a different oppinion other than those like yourself and The Australian news paper(i.e. those negative ways with no backup of proof), then perhaps iiNet and TPG would be scared too?

Optus and Other fixed line providers will benifit either way from the NBN.

Give it a rest :)

When the NBN is in Full swing mode, then come back with comments like this.
HubertCumberdale
Oct 13, 2010 11:37 AM
And just like that the anit-nbn crowd have been destroyed. I particularly like this quote:

Quote:
"There are still some people querying that there's going to be some new technology that's going to replace fibre and as recently as yesterday people saying that fibre is no longer the technology of the future,"

and this one:
Quote:

"I'm not exactly sure what parallel universe people live on but fibre will be the way of the future."

It really puts into perspective just how delusional these people were, no doubt they were watching to much Star Treks. I dont mind the show myself but I can distinguish fantasy from reality...Subspace communications is just fictional guys.
anonymous
Oct 13, 2010 11:42 AM

Oh, sydlala, you started out so well and then your shareholder instincts took you back to the darkness.

You seem to have missed the point that NBN is a comms channel, and will not itself be a C/ISP to customers of your Telstra or anybody else.

And Mr Peters (are you the one from Telstra?), it may be premature of you to announce the death of the NBN from "day one". You should know that fibre networks need little maintenence and have a long life (despite some amusingly fake statements to the contrary on the Internet).
sydneyla
Oct 13, 2010 11:44 AM
Those who criticise the Australian Newspaper and attack others with a different point of view will need to accept one thing that is for sure and certain and that is the fact that the super fast NBN Co service is going to cost them a lot more than they pay now. WHY? 43 billion, probably a lot more, invested requires a large return.
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 11:46 AM
DRUPS wrote:


Um hello!! There was no other option proposed at that time such as a fibre to the premisis.


OPEL could have proposed FTTH is they so wished if they felt that the WiMax wireless plan was not viable, Optus obviously thought that wireless was viable, they did all the tech planning and coverage maps for it and proposed the plan to the Government and won the deal.


Edited by advocate: 13/10/2010 11:50:07 AM
sydneyla
Oct 13, 2010 11:52 AM
Anonymous your referral to the long life of the optic fibre cable was interesting. As you obviously have some knowledge of this product would you be so kind as to inform me as to its probable life in an overhead and underground situation. I have been told that a 15 year overhead and a 25 year underground life would be about right. Thanks in anticipation.
realitybites
Oct 13, 2010 12:02 PM
I can tell you the lifespan of cables hung on power poles in the north of WA, NT, QLD if thats any use to you. Approx 1 cyclone season :)
mad1k5
Oct 13, 2010 12:16 PM
sydneyla

"Those who criticise the Australian Newspaper and attack others with a different point of view will need to accept one thing that is for sure and certain and that is the fact that the super fast NBN Co service is going to cost them a lot more than they pay now. WHY? 43 billion, probably a lot more, invested requires a large return."

Investment is not needed by Shareholders, we are the shareholders.

realitybites
"I can tell you the lifespan of cables hung on power poles in the north of WA, NT, QLD if thats any use to you. Approx 1 cyclone season :)"

The NBN is not using Polls to fibre up on the main land, they are using the Telstra deal for underground access.

sydneyla, we have people posting fibs and lies about the NBN, this is why we need to attack the newspapers and posters of mis-information.
Mic
Oct 13, 2010 12:31 PM
Those referring to the Opel scheme seem to forget that the WiMax rollout included in it was (as Maha suggests wireless technologies SHOULD be) only a component of the overall rollout. There were also 400+ exchanges that were going to get ADSL2+ DSLAMS, and multiple fibre backhaul channels (including the Basslink cable which has only just recently been lit up, bringing competitive backhaul to Tasmania around 3 years after Opel was scrapped by Kevin 07).

Wireless is not a solution for urban environments, full stop. However in more sparsely populated areas, the cost of rolling out fixed line infrastructure skyrockets, and incorporating wireless broadband into the overall mobile coverage brings another source of revenue into the same infrastructure.

He's absolutely right. No company is going to risk the sort of rollout required for core infrastructure like this when someone bigger can come along, overbuild them and squeeze them out of the market. Anyone that does is going to require the sort of regulation and assurances that essentially give them a commercial monopoly and guarantee their profits - at the taxpayers AND the users expense.
Mic
Oct 13, 2010 12:37 PM
...and re the Opel thing.. don't just take my word for it, here's what Michael Malone (iiNet boss) had to say about it:

"While we'd like to see a lot more information, the initial overview
sounds great. The "right" solution for retail high speed broadband
is fixed line (ADSL or cable) where that is practical, wireless for
the bulk of the larger centres, and satellite for the really remote
places.

"The Optus Elders combination is about as good as the country
could have hoped for as well. Optus does have the credibility
to do this rollout properly and Elders has the regional reach and
experience.

"Overall, looks like a very sensible result for regional Australia."

(source http://apcmag.com/optus_unveils_2bn_wimaxadsl2_network.htm )
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 2:15 PM
Mic wrote:


Wireless is not a solution for urban environments, full stop.

If you look at the proposed OPEL WiMax rollout maps it included many urban environments.

Anyone that does is going to require the sort of regulation and assurances that essentially give them a commercial monopoly and guarantee their profits - at the taxpayers AND the users expense.

Indeed, it's called the NBN Co, although I would leave out the 'profit guarantee' bit.

djzort
Oct 13, 2010 2:37 PM
Maha is overlooking that when Optus rolled cable, they were selling not only the product of internet access (and pay tv), but also the concept of using the internet and paying for tv.

He also omits to mention that despite the flurry of spending, optus has been making good money off that infrastructure ever since. Despite Optus' being now mobile focused, they are clearly making good money off fixed broadband without challenging that market at all.

Consider then, that normally when infrastructure is built, there are high initial costs, some mistakes and waste, lots of marketing, then a return to financial prudence and sustainable returns ongoing.

Remember that same cable infrastructure is still capable of delivering 100's of megabits/sec. The current modems optus are selling are capable of 320meg/s. Next generation docsis 3 modems will be 640meg/s capable.

The reality is pretty simple. Does Optus/Singtel want the government to spend tax payer dollars (and thereby absorb all the cost and risk), to allow them to sell high speed broadband to more people? Yes. Will Optus make money regardless of how much it costs people? Almost certainly.

Does Optus (or any company) really care what your actual monthly bill is? Nope, they just care about the margin, market size and risk reduction.

So shareholders of telco's will get phat paid, with the risk absorbed by tax dollars. Awesome.
advocate
Oct 13, 2010 4:11 PM
Spot on djzort, it would be really interesting to know how keen Optus would be about the NBN rollout if Labor said we have changed our mind on the funding mix, we will contribute 51% and each Telco/ISP will contribute to the balance of the NBN rollout cost based on their fixed line customer BB market share in October 2010.

BTW there is no guarantee whatever you will get your money back.

There would certainly be plenty of announcements about how 'there is plenty of life left in the copper network', and how the future 'is all about wireless'.

:)

epimetheus
Oct 13, 2010 4:29 PM
When, oh when, is all this BS about fibre roll-out going to stop? Fibre may be the best medium but no way and never is it going to be deployed to the multitudes who live "out of town"! As usual everything is being done for people who already have too much.....standard looney Labor policy!
HubertCumberdale
Oct 13, 2010 4:38 PM
epimetheus wrote:
When, oh when, is all this BS about fibre roll-out going to stop? Fibre may be the best medium but no way and never is it going to be deployed to the multitudes who live "out of town"! As usual everything is being done for people who already have too much.....standard looney Labor policy!

You must have been misinformed about what NBNco is doing, seriously just go back to whingepool.
Tailgator
Oct 13, 2010 4:47 PM
advocate wrote:

Telstra and Optus didn't make money from the HFC cable because of lack of uptake, and that included the FoxTel and Optus Pay TV product that in fact was the marketing driver of the HFC rollout into selected high density areas of our largest capital cities.
HFC failed because of the decidedly luke warm reception by consumers to having to pay $$ to watch TV.



No. Telstra and Optus didn't make money from the HFC rollout because the demand for services provided by competing providers for Pay TV (and in Optus' case telephony) was too low at the price point required for the companies to make a profit, ie cover infrastructure costs. And Telstra knew this even before it started the rollout, preferring to take a loss to kill competition rather than make a profit through providing a service at a price consumers would be prepared to pay.

Which brings me back to my original point. "In addition it directly and negatively impacted on the roll out of infrastructure, hobbled it, to the detriment of consumers access." In other words, the whole concept of competition between fixed line providers being beneficial for end users/consumers is a massive furphy. Put simply, only one fixed line provider is required and viable.

As for ....
advocate wrote:

On the other hand the other infrastructure rollout that has proved successful is the respective wireless rollouts by the likes of Optus, Telstra, Vodafone and Three.
The reason it is so successful is that the product range this infrastructure supports, mobile telephony and wireless data is in high demand from consumers and will be increasing so even post the NBN.



The reason that competition has been viable is that the cost to the service provider is such that it is able to provide a service at a price point acceptable to consumers. Something that competitive fixed line infrastructure, as demonstrated by the cable wars, is clearly unable to do.








Edited by Tailgator: 13/10/2010 04:51:24 PM
MerariSchroeder
Oct 13, 2010 4:58 PM
Conroy most likely asked Krishnapillai something like "You can have your asking price, to transfer customers if you publically support my NBN and discredit my opponents" - the monopoly is already becoming a monster.

We all know FTTH is a nice technology to have, Krishnapillai of course failed to talk about the cost of the NBN, and issues around cost benefits analysis. How about a plan which starts affordable - LTE+FTTN and then upgrades to FTTH on savings?

There are many more sensible options - NBNOptions.org
Thunder Bird
Oct 13, 2010 7:48 PM
Anyone that thinks wireless internet is a solution should read the following threads in the Adam internet forum.
AdamMax WiFi issue
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1517302
Problems With Adam Wimax?
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1484790
Is a wireless internet roll-out normally plagued by such problems or is it simply the lack of expertise by the company concerned.
Bazwalt
Oct 14, 2010 10:06 AM
Wow, No comment from Deteego. This is strange.
Francis
Oct 14, 2010 10:13 AM
@mad1k5
I believe that your statement about the NBN going underground is not entirely correct.
The information coming out of the Government is that the NBN will use Telstra ducts where they are available.
This is further complicated by the fact that a lot of these ducts are already full so they will need to pull the copper network out before they put in the NBN Cable. This then becomes messy as it leaves people without Phone or ADSL while the work is carried out. Then there is the danger that if the copper cable is pulled out once the Fibre Cable is installed there is the possibility that the copper cable will pull the Fibre Cable out with it. This already happens with existing cables.
Next problem is that in many suburbs the main or trunk line is underground but goes up the nearest Power Pole and then overhead to the home. My family has even been a victim of this policy when a way-wood vehicle took our phone connection out when it hit a power pole which carried a Telstra junction box and in each instance it took around a week to replace the communications cables. In the first instance my brother was in Hospital having emergency cardiac surgery and in the second instance I was suffering from from sever chest pains and had to walk out into the street to get enough signal on my mobile and call "000" for an Ambulance.
Finally I can take you around Sydney and show you Telstra Trunk Cables strung from power poles and in may cases they are in Bush Fire Prone Areas.
What's a bet that when things get a bit tough that ConBoy and his gang wont take the easy way out and simply go overhead just as Optus did.
I am also informed that in Townsville which is a cyclone area the installation of the NBN was given to Ergon Energy who are stringing it on their Power Poles.
Frankly this is a discussion we should not be having. We should be following the overseas experience and putting the whole damned lot underground. We have overseas friends and relatives who when visiting are bemused at our overhead wires and cables which makes me cringe.
Ask yourself this, are we a civilised country or still a hillbilly colonial backwater or developing country. If not then why are we still putting this Junk up in the AIR.
If you agree then why don't you go and see your local State and Federal members and lets see if we cant get all this stuff progressively buried?
HubertCumberdale
Oct 14, 2010 1:40 PM
Bazwalt wrote:
Wow, No comment from Deteego. This is strange.

Seems he's too busy crusading over on the Delimiter site now, look they even put his photo in one article http://delimiter.com.au/2010/10/13/quit-yammering-and-learn-to-love-the-nbn/
anonymous
Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM

You sure about that, Hubert? The photo on Delimiter looks more mature than deteego sounds.

@sydlala re life of foc: Fibre viability will obviously vary according to the installed environment, but it would be reasonable to work on average life expectation about double the figures you quoted.

Moral of story - don't believe everything you see on the Net, particularly unsigned pieces which have allegedly been produced by a "network engineer".
:P)
Gavk
Oct 14, 2010 8:10 PM
Why are people suggesting Optus want infastructure built for them? You guys realize Optus is up there with TPG and iiNet for DSLAM coverage, yet all of them agree the NBN is the right way to go - the people with the most to lose are behind this project.

@Advocate I disagree HFC has low take up, looking at the ABS stats around a million people have a HFC connection, how many houses to Telstra/Optus pass again? excluding overbuilds like 2-3 million?

Considering the premium price HFC comes with, that's great.

@epimetheus - so your telling me of the 93% FTTH coverage goal, none live 'out of town' ?

@MerariSchroeder - there is no upgrade path from FTTN to FTTH, it's essentially a entirely seperate network, just ask people like Simon Hackett and Mark Newton from Internode about it, they'll school you.


I still havent seen any proof that the NBN will cost more, people easily forget most broadband requires $30 line bundling these days, the $35 retail 25Mbps data + voice prices that have been thrown around by the coallition to try and scaremonger are fantastic.
Francis
Oct 14, 2010 11:50 PM
@ Gavk
Please read my earlier post.
We have two Major problems.
1.
The Opposition are scaremongering and the Government through Conboy are not much better in that they are not keeping the public / electorate / and communications Industry properly informed.
So unless you have some practical knowledge WRT the B... S..t flowing around how the hell is anyone who has never worked within this industry going to form an informed opinion on this issue.
Frankly both sides are to blame and a Pox on their respective houses.
advocate
Oct 15, 2010 3:49 PM
Gavk wrote:
Why are people suggesting Optus want infastructure built for them? You guys realize Optus is up there with TPG and iiNet for DSLAM coverage, yet all of them agree the NBN is the right way to go - the people with the most to lose are behind this project.

Yeah all of them agree that the NBN is 'the right way to go' because they don't have to bankroll such a high risk unknown ROI multi-billion dollar project.

Let's see how enthusiastic they are if the NBN rollout cost was based on a user pays principle with contributions based on the number of existing BB customers they have.

It would suddenly become 'not that important'!

I disagree HFC has low take up, looking at the ABS stats around a million people have a HFC connection, how many houses to Telstra/Optus pass again? excluding overbuilds like 2-3 million?

Considering the premium price HFC comes with, that's great.

Jeez I must have misread the Optus spokespersons comments in the lead article, I could have sworn he said Optus and Telstra wrote off 1 billion on the HFC rollout, and that Optus was bleeding $300 million a year on it, that's your definition of 'great' is it?

You also state you have not seen any proof the NBN will cost more, you also have not seen any proof that it will cost less, but in this instance I assume 'more' is better.
junosque55
Oct 15, 2010 4:08 PM
Too much crap over what is better and concerns behind the implementation. By the time they concur on next step of action, another new technology is gonna be available and woops! Back to the drawing board ... AGAIN and more money spent without any tangible developments.

This country has poured so much into "building and re-building plans". The consulting and IT companies are laughing to the bank at a govt that is unable to process from planning to actions. For christ sake, the NBN is not going to last forever! By the speed things are progressing today, it will be outdated when the people can ultimately benefit from it.

Let's get on with making "something" happen!
scooter
Oct 15, 2010 4:12 PM
Intelligence, knowledge or understanding are obviously not a prerequisite for posting on this forum.
We stand on the cusp of one of the most beneficial public undertakings in Australian history and all people can do is confuse running a business with running a government. The requirements are inherently different. You run a business for the benefit of no one but the shareholders. You run a government for the benefit of the entire country. As a government you don't have to make a profit you just have to ensure the net benefit covers the expense.
The NBN will more than achieve this aim in the lifetime of the proposed network. In my opinion an even more significant investment is justified.
Those that tie this to a corporate investment schedule have a vested interest and feel treatened. They shouldn't as this network will ensure a level playing field for all. Well all except those dragging there feet using outdated business models. Why are the major telcos jumping on board? Because they have wised up to the benefits.
Wake up Australia and support a project that will benefit all Australians for generations to come.
advocate
Oct 15, 2010 7:49 PM
scooter wrote:
Intelligence, knowledge or understanding are obviously not a prerequisite for posting on this forum.

How can you possibly respond to such a profound argument, other than to say I assume all your posts are excluded.

We stand on the cusp of one of the most beneficial public undertakings in Australian history and all people can do is confuse running a business with running a government.

No they don't, they don't confuse taxpayer funded sinkholes with no defined benefit at all.

The NBN will more than achieve this aim in the lifetime of the proposed network. In my opinion an even more significant investment is justified.

Wow that's a first, even more than $43 billion is justified, which is amazing seeing that $43 billion has not been justified yet.

Why are the major telcos jumping on board?

Because they don't have to pay for it.

Because they have wised up to the benefits.

See above answer.

Wake up Australia and support a project that will benefit all Australians for generations to come.

Well they will certainly be still paying for it for generations to come, the jury is out on the benefit because we do not have time travel yet and the hindsight at the end of 12-15 years years from now.



Edited by advocate: 15/10/2010 07:54:51 PM
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