Internode lifts lid on wholesale internet costs

 

Highlights challenge NBN Co must address.

Internode has revealed it pays around $3100 per megabit in wholesale 3G costs to provide a wireless broadband service to its customers.

Carrier relations manager John Lindsay contrasted this with the cost of providing fixed line internet services from the Adelaide exchange his own home service was connected to.

“It costs $110 a megabit to get the internet to me because we own the path all the way to the internet,” Lindsay said.

“But at the same exchange we have Telstra Wholesale ports and a customer connected to them costs us $200 a megabit.

“[But] it’s $3100 to get the internet out to one of those sticks on 3G. This is the fundamental problem with the wireless access network. Spectrum is really expensive and accountants have this weird desire to demonstrate solvency to their investors. I don’t understand it,” he said.

The numbers were “rounded up or down to protect the guilty or non-disclosure agreements” that Internode had in place with suppliers, he said.

1.5 Mbps the new standard
Lindsay also produced a graph of ADSL customers that showed the spread of Internode customers on Telstra Wholesale ports across various speeds and price points. He did not produce a similar graph for customers on the ISP’s own DSLAMs.

“Almost half are on 512k and there’s a handful on 256k plans - what we effectively refer to as ‘fraudband’ because it’s like a dial-up model only more expensive,” he said.

“[256k] has been trashed by 3G modems and 512k would appear as of last week to be headed for the scrap heap because Telstra seems to have decided 1.5 Mbps is the base model [for its ADSL services].

“Frankly I think the rest of the industry will follow suit.”

Internode scrapped both in a separate announcement this morning - making its new entry point a 1.5 Mbps service with a 5GB download quota for $49.95.

“Internode has eliminated 'fraudband' and now offers all new customers at least a 1.5 Mbps ADSL service, plus options to go much faster for those who need it,” said managing director Simon Hackett.

“256k and 512k ADSL speeds are so '2001' – and now they're gone.”

NBN Co's challenge
Lindsay said the graph also showed that the $40 to $50 price point was most attractive to customers, even among relatively heavy users.

“We’ve got customers who i call leechers that take the product all the way to the wire and actually go beyond the end of the wire and get more than 100 percent of their cap,” he said.

“Some people exhaust their cap on the first day of the month and continue to suck on their cap for the rest [of the month at a throttled speed].

“I don’t get it. But clearly they’re on a budget. They have a [monthly] price cap and that’s their chosen way of [keeping to it].”

Like others at the conference, he believed the challenge for NBN Co would be pricing its services within the price levels consumers deemed acceptable to their wallets.

“They’ve got to come up with an access model for pricing that fits with the $50 per month for broadband and $30 a month for voice services [that customers will pay],” Lindsay said.

“It also needs to generate some sort of margin for retail service providers.”

iiNet chief Michael Malone also said yesterday he believed “the magic number for broadband is $50.

“Average revenue per user across the industry seems to converge on that,” he said yesterday.

Malone said that when Telstra bumped up access costs in 2005, iiNet gave customers a choice of seeing their monthly costs increase by $15 to $20 per month or dropping down to a lower speed.

“Four percent took the higher price and 96 percent took lower speeds,” Malone said.

“Pricing really matters in this market.”

Node DSLAMs "carry" business
Internode’s Lindsay produced yet more figures that purportedly showed Internode sold 40 GB plans at a loss of $10 per month.

Losses were recouped in part from the third of its customer base - some 65,000 - connected via Internode’s own DSLAMs.

Using the same calculation method, Lindsay said a 100 GB plan that cost Internode $90 per month could “fortunately” be sold for $129.95 a month.

“Our customers on our DSLAMs are what carries our business,” he said.


Internode lifts lid on wholesale internet costs
"Gavk wrote: LOL I just noticed that was posted a year ago ;D Nice work"
By deteego
 
 
 
Comments: 16
Luddite
Dec 8, 2009 6:43 PM
“Some people exhaust their cap on the first day of the month and continue to suck on their cap for the rest [of the month at a throttled speed].

“I don’t get it. But clearly they’re on a budget. They have a [monthly] price cap and that’s their chosen way of [keeping to it].”

Not a wise comment from Mr Lindsay, seeing as Internode provide free access to Usenet groups, for those wretched people who only want to educate themselves on how, initially, to use this facility, and then, to download model aeroplane enthusiasts' video content, to keep in touch with their world wide peer group, as one example.
chugs
Dec 8, 2009 8:26 PM
The real reason why 3G bandwidth is so expensive is not because transmission costs via leased line circuits from towers to datacentres is prohibited but rather if they reduced the cost of the data this would in turn compete with the voice product that the providers sell at ridiculous margin. (we'd all be doing SSH / voip connections to our fav provider)

A 10byte SMS sells for $0.20! At that sort of rate its no wonder they sell wholesale IP at $3k per mbps.

If you want wireless data costs to be competitive a government regime must regulate the fixed costs of mobile voice services.

Voda, TWS and XYZ have their mobile networks excluded from access pricing regime that the ACCC manages. If all communication networks were govern under a regulatory regime (aka NBN) then not only would voice call rates reduce massively but in turn the wholesale IP charges would as well.
cw
Dec 8, 2009 8:27 PM
Pretty sure Node's entry point would be the Easy Broadband ADSL plan, $49.95 / 1.5Mbps / 50Gig not 5Gig as in the story.

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/adsl/easy_broadband/plans/
ace-den
Dec 9, 2009 7:35 AM
Wrong.
The only reason Internode dont make money is becuase they waste it on unneccarrasy bandwidth to Asia and the US. The same network stability can be achieved by buying links to Vocus or Optus or Telstra in each state POP. Money is being pissed up on the wall on the private links to Japan and USA

I run a small ISP in WA and make money on 40GB Plans.
rycrozier
Dec 9, 2009 8:07 AM
@cw - Their Home Standard entry level plan- http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/adsl/standard/pricing/
evilsync
Dec 9, 2009 11:23 AM
“We’ve got customers who i call leechers that take the product all the way to the wire and actually go beyond the end of the wire and get more than 100 percent of their cap,” he said.

Thanks Internode, so I pay my monthly fee - and now I'm considered a leech because I use what I pay for. And it is your poor capping system which allows people to go over the limit, and in many cases is not done on purpose - stop whinging, fix your capping system and stop calling your client base leechers. Not on.
Digger11
Dec 9, 2009 1:48 PM
How ISP's can "blame" customers when they lose money is still totally beyond me. Do they have any competent finance or marketing analysts ????

Did the cusotmers set the prices they pay ????

Sounds like whinging and whining iiNet again.
mattybaus
Dec 9, 2009 2:21 PM
let me see if I have this right

his business model is failing
so he is going to blame
1. his supplier
2. the government
3. his customers

mmmmm call me dumb - but maybe you are in the wrong business
umbria
Dec 9, 2009 3:01 PM
Well, internode must be doing something right. The arguably more knowledgable than average 325,787 users of the Whirlpool broadband users forum currently get their broadband from the following ISPS, in order of popularity:

#1 Internode
#2 iiNet
#3 TPG Internet
#4 Telstra BigPond
#5 OptusNet
#6 Exetel
#7 Netspace
#8 Adam Internet
#9 Westnet
#10 aaNet
#11 Amnet
#12 3
#13 iPrimus
#14 AAPT
#15 Virgin Broadband
#16 Comcen Internet
#17 Dodo
#18 People Telecom
#19 Spin Internet
#20 Beagle Internet

And the most popular plan for the same user base is their Easy Broadband at $49.95 for 50GB with no petty off-peak times and unmetered access to Usenet, ABCTV IView and software download mirrors.

See http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/
Digger11
Dec 9, 2009 3:39 PM
@umbria - easy to run a loss making ISP. All of your customers will love your pricing !!!!!!
addictivechaos
Dec 9, 2009 4:48 PM
@umbria Internode's usenet is counted in your downloads (see http://www.internode.on.net/residential/product_features/premium_usenet/). Also the Easy Broadband counts uploads in the 50GB (a very big no-no as far as consumer awareness goes).
AfroTrance
Dec 11, 2009 2:01 AM
Are people stupid or just lack reading comprehension? He never said Internode is running at a loss. He said some plans run at a loss... The main points he makes is that internet is ridiculously expensive through Telstra and 3G and that most customers want cheap internet not fast internet (EG NBN...)
Digger11
Dec 11, 2009 9:08 AM
@Afro - you are correct. But the problem with Broadband pricing is twofold.
1. If you have to buy from Telstra Wholesale you get screwed on access price to the DSLAM and
2. Most Internet traffic comes from the US, so ISP's need to buy capacity to there. Presently SCCN is the msot cost effective but still prohibitily expensive for something like sn unlimited plan.

NBN might solve 1.
Bevan and the boys at Pipe Networks are trying to solve 2. (unless their new owner and certified "tight-ass" Teoh derails the idea by setting pricing too high.)

As for Lindsay whining about wirtelss pricing - who is he kidding ???? If you don't own the network (and this applies to mobile telephony as well) you will always be screwed on price.
Nam one Australian virtual mobile operator (no network) who is trading profitably ??).
Even the mighty Virgin Mobile couldn't do it and sold to Optus.
Did Internode really go into Wireless BB with their eyes closed and fingers in their ears ????

Gavk
Sep 29, 2010 5:48 PM
@Digger11 how can you call Teoh a 'certified tight ass' ??

He just released a BB plan starting at $9 per month, and unlimited starting at $29 per month, with all plans including ADSL1 to be reviewed within a week, and the unlimited plan to be available on all 385 of TPG's exchanges...

He is also selling 100Mbps unlimited Fiber thru PIPE for $599

I don't see Internode doing that, infact Internode want $4000 for 40Mbps...

But whatever.
Gavk
Sep 29, 2010 5:49 PM
LOL I just noticed that was posted a year ago ;D
deteego
Sep 29, 2010 6:20 PM
Gavk wrote:
LOL I just noticed that was posted a year ago ;D


Nice work
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