Day 20: iiNet can’t vet AFACT copyright allegations

 

Without breaching Telco Act or breaking the law.

ISP iiNet would have to break the law to verify allegations of copyright infringement raised in notices from the film industry, the Federal Court heard today.

Excluding its obligations under the Telecommunications Act - which iiNet argues prevents it from matching customer account records to allegations from the film industry anyway - iiNet’s lead barrister Richard Cobden told the court that “in order to even check what AFACT says is the case, one would infringe copyright.”

“If one wanted to check the DtecNet evidence and see on a range of IP addresses supplied by iiNet that infringing material was online, the only way to do it would be to use the BitTorrent client like DtecNet did, construct the parameters of the IP address range, locate the file and compare it to details in the spreadsheets,” Cobden alleged.

“To run a DtecNet system oneself to verify what DtecNet was doing, one would infringe copyright. It points out how unreasonable throwing notifications into the laps of ISPs is.”

Cobden’s argument built on this morning’s session where he argued that iiNet would not be able to respond in detail to an account holder’s request for more information on the nature of alleged infringements if it were to pass on notices from rights holders.

“There’s no way an ISP could answer any of the questions that could, quite conceivably, be possibly raised by an accused customer,” he continued this afternoon.

“It’s certainly open for an accused customer to come back and say explain it to me before you terminate me.”

Cobden alleged that the notices were not “self-explanatory”. He also argued that the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft had at no point offered to answer questions from ISP customers that wanted to dispute the notices.

“There’s no suggestion that AFACT would ever take on answering those questions - they just say [to ISPs] ‘Do what you have to do and report back to us’,” Cobden alleged.

“AFACT has never set up a system to deal with these enquiries and there’s no suggestion they would do so.”

Qualifying ‘compelling evidence’
Cobden then turned his attention to iiNet chief Michael Malone’s alleged admission under cross-examination that he [Malone] regarded evidence collected by third party investigators DtecNet as “compelling.”

The ISP’s barrister said that it was a suggestion first raised by the film industry’s lead barrister Tony Bannon SC, not by Malone.

Cobden alleged there were “some 36 references to ‘compelling evidence’” in the film industry’s closing submissions. He then took Justice Cowdroy back over the court transcripts in an attempt to dispel “the importance the applicants place on compelling evidence.”

Cobden paraphrased Malone as saying the he thought the evidence was compelling but that it “ought to be tested.

“Mr Malone places sufficient weight or basis for needing to test the evidence,” Cobden stated.

He said that need to test had been Malone’s consistent position, even in a post to the broadband forum Whirlpool, which the film industry had allegedly based its original question on ‘compelling evidence’.

“His [Malone’s] description of compelling evidence was always qualified as meriting the attention of a third party,” Cobden stated.

IIA application

The case closed for the week with news that the Internet Industry Association’s application to enter proceedings as a ‘friend of the court’ would be heard on the afternoon of Tuesday 24 November.

The hearing was previously set down for 9.30am on Thursday 26 November.

It appeared certain that iiNet’s barristers would complete closing submissions by lunchtime on Tuesday 24 November “or [run] slightly into the afternoon” session. The IIA hearing would then follow.

The Wednesday sitting may then be abandoned in favour of wrapping up the case on Thursday 26 November.

The case was adjourned until Tuesday 24 November at 10.15am.

You can follow the case in-full here. For a background on the case, click here.


Day 20: iiNet can’t vet AFACT copyright allegations
"@Digger: "Guilty" WRONG!!! Back to your parents basement you go..."
By marklara
 
 
 
Comments: 17
Digger11
Nov 19, 2009 5:42 PM
Guilty
pete123
Nov 19, 2009 6:18 PM
Why stop at copyright violations. Surely if the ISP is responsible for users downloading copyrighted material, they are also responsible for other legal issues regarding their users. Libel, deceptive conduct and contempt of court for example.
TruthSphere
Nov 19, 2009 7:58 PM
Digger11 I just sent an illegal copy of Animal Farm to my mate via.... AUSTRALIA POST! you better get AFACT to send some notices to Australia post to cancel my connection to my letter box. Then take 'em to court when they laugh at you.
Sams
Nov 19, 2009 9:41 PM
Truthsphere, I think you'll find Australia Post is the "evil" party for not checking the contents of each and every parcel sent through their network. I mean *clearly* big parcels imply illegal activity, and yet they are still happy to keep taking the money. In fact they are so dastardly that they make *more* money out of the larger parcels, and encourage bigger sizes with their illicit so called 'Post Packs'. They don't even limit the amount of parcels you are allowed to get per month - if that's not guilt I don't know what is. ;-)
TruthSphere
Nov 19, 2009 10:04 PM
Well written :)
mck
Nov 19, 2009 11:05 PM
People should "REPORT" digger11.
Click on his name and on his profile page visit his "Last 10 Posts".
For each of his posts you find him trolling click the REPORT button.

If enough people do this then he will be banned, or better yet he might remain but learn and have improved behaviour.
rob
Nov 20, 2009 12:34 AM
Not only does Australia Post encourage and authorise users to breach copyright by providing a *door to door* service, they further encourage and authorise copyright breach by intentionally selling (not just "making available") boxes specifically designed *and labelled* as CD and DVD boxes.
They are specifically designed to minimise the potential of your disc being broken, and are priced low enough for even the cheapest of pirates to feel justified in purchasing them.
Australia Post - you're next on AFACT's list. You won't even have to breach the telecommunications act, because AFACT will be able to provide name and full address to you!
btone
Nov 20, 2009 4:04 AM
@Digger11: 'Guilty'

Troll
Sams
Nov 20, 2009 9:31 AM
rob wrote:
they further encourage and authorise copyright breach by intentionally selling (not just "making available") boxes specifically designed *and labelled* as CD and DVD boxes


OMG, I did not realise that. This has been going on right under our noses! Something stinks here people, and that's a fact!
djzort
Nov 20, 2009 9:52 AM
lawyers sure are good at making work for themselves :)
anonymous
Nov 20, 2009 9:58 AM
Forgive me, Father AFART, for I have sinned. Last night, on the publicly flaunted and available telephone system, a mate asked me how a movie on TV ended, as he had missed it - and I told him!

Obviously he and I should rot in jail at your pleasure, and of course the telephone system will have to be shut down to ensure that such licentious misconduct and breach of your sacred copyright can never happen again.

Yo' listenin', Digger yo' miserable troll?
wolfpac
Nov 20, 2009 11:00 AM
why not start spamming AFACT web site and tell them there f*cked cause they (afact) will do what ever they want and tell hell and the other people govenment wants this so let them have it . they will be shooting them selfs in the foot cause the people as a hole will not take this shit lieing down
Sams
Nov 20, 2009 11:55 AM
anonymous wrote:
Last night, on the publicly flaunted and available telephone system


Now as we all know, longer telephone conversations imply criminal activity. And yet telephone companies actively encourage users to make longer phone calls --- and in fact make *greater* profits from them. Yet they are happy to take the money. Guilty I say. :-)
FredFred
Nov 20, 2009 10:00 PM
I want to know what AFACT is going to do about all the dvd and vcr recorders out there. Plus all those nasty retailers out there selling them and encouraging people to break the law.
VP
Nov 21, 2009 3:55 AM
Ok heres another analogy. IInet are the exchange who supplies the feed to the exchange!!!! That data comes over bigger pipes than IInet have why aren't AFACT trying to stop it at the place where it comes into Australia. (because they would loose against those giants) For IInet to monitor actual packets would be akin to phone tapping and you need to have a court order to do that.
deonast
Nov 21, 2009 11:33 AM
I love the Aust Post analogies, great work guys.

Perhaps iiNet's lawyer needs to use a few just to show the ridiculousness of it all, or perhaps the law would just show Aust post as a plausible next target ridiculous or not.
marklara
Feb 8, 2010 5:03 PM
@Digger:
"Guilty"

WRONG!!! Back to your parents basement you go...
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