Day 20: AFACT snoops “arguably” committed crimes in iiNet probe

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Day 20: AFACT snoops “arguably” committed crimes in iiNet probe
"Rhino wrote: I'm going to find Digger11's licence plate and have is licence suspended as I am alleging he has committed traffic offences. Lots of them. I don't have definitive proof, but an ..."
By Sams
 
Nov 19, 2009 2:13 PM
Tags: iinet | afact | film | studio | case | law | cobden | closing

Reason for iiNet to forward notices to police.

ISP iiNet was justified in sending the film industry’s copyright notices to Western Australian Police because it was “strongly arguable” the notices were evidence of copyright crimes committed by investigators, the Federal Court heard today.

As the copyright case entered week five, iiNet’s lead barrister Richard Cobden told the court it was “very likely” that the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT) investigators had engaged in criminal activity in their investigation of alleged copyright infringement on iiNet’s network.

This activity occurred despite film studio bosses telling the court under cross-examination that they would not sanction investigative techniques that could be classified as unlawful or that infringed the studio’s copyrights.

“It was a constant theme of the cross-examination of [iiNet chief regulatory officer Steven] Dalby that, by reason of absence of commercial scale of the activities, [the AFACT notices] could not possibly be of interest to the police, that [the notices] could not be [evidence of] a crime,” Cobden said.

“The problem with that, and that [AFACT investigators] would face, is it is strongly arguable that [the investigator’s actions] were crimes.”

Cobden said that section 132AJ(1) of the Copyright Act, it could be argued, prescribed an indictable offence that may have been committed by AFACT investigators in collating evidence.

The suggestion appeared to draw a wry grin from the film industry’s lead barrister Tony Bannon.

iiNet’s belief that the notices were evidence of crimes being committed would mean the ISP was justified in forwarding the AFACT notices to police, Cobden argued.

However, he believed it was “arguable whether a crime had been committed or not” due to lingering questions over whether the studios had in fact ‘licensed’ investigators to download all or parts of the films and TV shows covered by the case.

Cobden argued the fact that because a number of titles were added to a Motion Picture Association of America SharePoint site under the classification “cleared for Australian litigation” prior to the start of AFACT's investigation, there had been a licensing of the investigator’s activities.

“‘Cleared for Australian litigation’ plainly carries the notion that the films were ready [for investigation],” Cobden alleged.

“It’s clear the studios knew what the investigation involved - downloading pieces and entire copies of the films.”

The case continues. You can follow the case in-full here. For a background on the case, click here.


 
Comments: 10
Thoughts on this article? Add a comment below.
TruthSphere
Nov 19, 2009 2:36 PM
The fact that they are logging people's actions should be illegal. It's like stalking.

Hurry up and notch up a win for the IT Industry Cobden.
Sams
Nov 19, 2009 4:18 PM
I don't support AFACT's case, but weren't they just logging IP addresses? I don't think it could be classified as stalking any more than recording car rego plate numbers of people committing offences on the open road, and handing them over to police. If you run servers out in the Internet, you'll know the need to do this sort of thing. We wouldn't want to make it illegal.
TruthSphere
Nov 19, 2009 7:47 PM
Good point Sams, you're right I didn't think that one through fully.
Maxxi
Nov 19, 2009 8:57 PM
ISPs log peoples IP addresses and their internet activity all the time, on a continual basis.

They could not run their operations or business otherwise...
TruthSphere
Nov 19, 2009 10:02 PM
I know, I know... i'm retracting..

However the ISP's reason's are genuine (billing etc.) AFACT's aren't, someone could of just hacked my wifi and downloaded a torrent but AFACT will want to punish me.
Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu)
Nov 19, 2009 10:53 PM
Sams said: "I don't support AFACT's case, but weren't they just logging IP addresses?"

No, to PROVE that the alleged iiNet customer had an illegal copy of a movie on their hard disk, the AFACT investigators would have joined a Bit-torrent site for peer-to-peer file sharing and then selected particular movies (by movie title) for downloading, and then used packet logging software to ascertain the IP addresses of the PCs which were 'providing' (even portions of) the nominated files. Then the AFACT investigators would have used the IP numbers list to work out which alleged infringers were on which ISP's network.

So, it is not equivalent to just taking down licence plates, but (using AFACT's own logic) like stealing a portion of each of those cars. The criminal activity was also 'downloading illegal copies' of the relevant movie titles. That (IMHO) was the basis of the iiNet claim that whoever was obtaining such lists of alleged copyright infringers must have ALSO been infringing copyright to obtain such a list of IP numbers.
Sams
Nov 19, 2009 11:47 PM
Graeme, this issue of AFACT downloading illegal copies is a separate issue.

Any bittorrent client worth its weight will tell you the IP addresses of connected peers right there in the GUI. You don't need packet logging software at all. Working out the ISP is aso easy: there are even online databases to do it: e.g. http://www.maxmind.com/app/locate_ip
There is nothing sinister about this in itself, and I occasionally use the latter server it to locate attacks on our services. We also use it to generate stats about web site visits. Google Analytics would do exactly the same sort of thing. It is not "stalking".

Now as for the actual sharing of illegal downloads, well that is illegal obviously.
TruthSphere
Nov 20, 2009 8:45 AM
Yeh Sams was replying to my message which was about a different issue. Not about them infringing copyright like the lawyer brought up.
Rhino
Nov 20, 2009 9:54 AM
I'm going to find Digger11's licence plate and have is licence suspended as I am alleging he has committed traffic offences. Lots of them.

I don't have definitive proof, but an allegation is sufficient.
Sams
Nov 20, 2009 12:00 PM
Rhino wrote:
I'm going to find Digger11's licence plate and have is licence suspended as I am alleging he has committed traffic offences. Lots of them.

I don't have definitive proof, but an allegation is sufficient.


I think you'll find it's the local gov't and dept. of roads that is to blame form making roads larger and allowing an unrestricted number of trips on them. AND charging rates and tolls for them. Shocking. :-)
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