Broadband enthusiasts keep the NBN faith

By Brett Winterford on Apr 19, 2011 9:18 AM
Filed under Telco/ISP

Whirlpool survey backs Government initiative.

The majority of Australia’s broadband enthusiasts remain buoyant on the Federal Government’s National Broadband Network project, according to a survey released overnight.

Over half of the 23,500 web users surveyed by Australian broadband forum Whirlpool expressed positive sentiments about the project, with a further one in five preferring to remain ‘neutral’.

Only 18.9 percent of respondents were disappointed with the project to date.

Respondents to Whirlpool's 2011 survey were also more positive about the Government’s role in the project. Two years ago, only 15 percent of respondents felt the Government was up to the job – a figure that rose to 42.8 percent this year.

That said, close to half still rated Communications Minister Stephen Conroy as doing a “poor” or “abysmal” job.

Four in five home owners in the survey said it was a no-brainer to agree to having NBN Co run fibre to the side of their premises, and over half would switch over to NBN services immediately if possible.

Two-thirds of respondents said they would opt for higher speed broadband services than are typically available today – with 22.8 percent interested in speeds above 250/100 Mbps (download/upload), 20.5 percent interested in 100/40Mbps, and 19.2 percent in 50/20 Mbps.

One in three respondents said they would not want to pay more for these speeds – but Whirlpool’s report pointed out that 47.5 percent thought it reasonable to pay at least $10 per month for these higher speeds, and one in three would even pay $20 per month more.

While a large number of respondents said they used file sharing software, the report also shone some light on productivity gains available through high-speed broadband.

Over 40 percent of respondents use broadband to work from home, another 37.4 percent to make telephone calls (VoIP) and 16.8 percent to run a server.

Two in three respondents did not see wireless technologies as a "serious" option for home internet access.

Broadband enthusiasts keep the NBN faith

30 comments in this discussion

"maybe we should let the 'Unhinged one' build us the new super inter-webs: requirements (1) string (2) 2x empty cans (3) nail (4) hammer. which is as useful as wireless when it rains here's a ..."

By yum-e

Tags

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Comments: 30

HubertCumberdale Apr 19, 2011 1:22 PM	These results dont surprise me, I mean if even the dullards on Whirlpoop have figured out that wireless is not a serious option for home internet access then you know something is wrong with your broadband policy. Regardless I look forward to seeing how Turnbull spins this one.
singo79 Apr 19, 2011 1:45 PM	@HubertCumberdale - "... if even the dullards on Whirlpoop have figured out that wireless is not a serious option for home internet access then you know something is wrong with your broadband policy". For starters, Whirlpool is a great forums for people, both experienced and unexperienced to get together to help each other and share ideas, and to indicate otherwise raises questions why. The results are a boost for the Government and NBNCo. but you have to remember that most of the people that visit Whirlpool already have some form of IT experience or interest that the general population doesn't. I can admitt this even though I am an NBN supporter, unlike the NBN nay-sayers who can only see one side of the fence. All this poll showed was that people with an understanding of the IT & Telecommunication industry back the NBN and labelled wireless as a supporting technology. I really think that NBNCo. need to be doing a lot more to communicate with the average Joe Blow on the street, the ones who have little idea about the technology used but need to have some idea in order for NBNCo. to successfully sell it to the masses.
RB Apr 19, 2011 2:34 PM	I find it interesting how this can be spun either way. The opposite spin would be: 20% of active Internet users will not agree to connect their homes to the NBN, even though it will be free. A third of users had no interest in speeds higher than they have today and a third of users will not pay more than they pay today for higher speeds. A third of all users saw wireless as a serious option for home wireless, supporting the recent trend away from fixed wired homes. @singo ... you are right, NBN Co DOES need to do a better job of communicating to Australian citizens. To make the NBN work we definitely need more public support for it.
Rossyduck Apr 19, 2011 3:36 PM	Of course I am going to replace my existing very satisfactory broadband connection - and it's not so I can get faster porn, without a connection it would devalue the house relative to the others in the street. That does not mean I support NBN Co. Most of the naysayers do support the concept of an NBN but not in the almost criminal manner NBN Co is trying to roll it out. The architecture, let alone the business model they are using is something out of the dark ages, like roman aquaducts in a time of modern plumbing (with comparable expenses). Frankly every day I have to deal with the NBN Co clowns just reinforces that they have no more than to or three people who have FttH experience and a complete lack of any sot of profesionalism. FttH experience would be an interesting question for the Government to answer.
Tom Brown Apr 19, 2011 3:43 PM	The critics are starting to shut up! Their spin is showing their lack of substance. There was so much Anti NBN material in the media and so little Pro NBN material presented by the media people thought that there had to be something wrong. But this was media moguls using right wing shock jocks and "journalists" to throw their weight against labour and was not fair reporting. And I think Conroy has done a great job of being the punching bag to the same interests. someone has to stand up to these and I doubt anyone would come off unscathed.
MerariSchroeder Apr 19, 2011 4:13 PM	A whirlpool survey is hardly an academic pursuit. Especially in the absence of well informed debate. Proper research would take a completely random sampling, tell the participants the retail costs for different plans. Tell them of what else will be available at the same time - ie. LTE and the prices. And the choices made will be grouped with the participants wage brackets. Only then would you see that most Australians would pick either the lowest NBNCo plan or a higher LTE plan. The general public is only showered with hollow generic statements. Like that, there will be heaps of innovation as a result of the NBN, without specifying exactly what they had in mind, or what evidence they had. And how 12Mbps fibre rather than max. 24Mbps Adsl2+ provoked innovation. @Tom Brown, "The critics are starting to shut up! Their spin is showing their lack of substance.", "There was so much Anti NBN material in the media". Ha. There's been much more NBN sympathy. The NBN plan is a flawed leap of faith, with no sound business principles. There's no pressing demand (except rurally), there's no example of high FTTH take up internationally, and Australians will be expected to pay more (more than what is payed on ADSL2+). It's a political plan, for a politically motivated Government.
HubertCumberdale Apr 19, 2011 5:13 PM	singo79 wrote: For starters, Whirlpool is a great forums for people, both experienced and unexperienced to get together to help each other and share ideas, and to indicate otherwise raises questions why. That's a nice way to put it, I call it "the blind leading the blind". It's a big internet and I've visited forums that "both experienced and inexperienced to get together to help each other and share ideas" Whirlpool is not one of them, it is in it's own little niche oblivious to it all... singo79 wrote: The results are a boost for the Government and NBNCo. but you have to remember that most of the people that visit Whirlpool already have some form of IT experience or interest that the general population doesn't. I can admitt this even though I am an NBN supporter, unlike the NBN nay-sayers who can only see one side of the fence. That is one thing about the survey I'd have to question, I mean if you are asking things like the wireless question or what current speed you are getting people are not likely to lie but if you ask questions like this then people are probably going to overstate their experience and level of knowledge. MerariSchroeder wrote: A whirlpool survey is hardly an academic pursuit. Especially in the absence of well informed debate. A survey needs a debate? MerariSchroeder wrote: Tell them of what else will be available at the same time - ie. LTE and the prices. You should also tell them the numerous flaws LTE has and how fibre outperforms it in every way. MerariSchroeder wrote: The NBN plan is a flawed leap of faith, with no sound business principles. Of course, to have "sound business principles" you need to use LTE... MerariSchroeder wrote: Only then would you see that most Australians would pick either the lowest NBNCo plan or a higher LTE plan. LOL MerariSchroeder wrote: There's no pressing demand (except rurally) Incorrect. MerariSchroeder wrote: there's no example of high FTTH take up internationally Let me guess you are basing this one on Turnbulls erroneous claims about FTTN in Korea. MerariSchroeder wrote: Australians will be expected to pay more (more than what is payed on ADSL2+). Incorrect. MerariSchroeder wrote: It's a political plan, for a politically motivated Government. That's some insight, politicians have a political plan that is politically motivated. I'm quite shocked.
deepthroat Apr 19, 2011 7:01 PM	You all miss the point. This government has decided to spend our tax dollars on a broadband network. Their challenge is to explain to the me why an NBN $ is in the nations interest ahead of a Health $ or a Defense $ or an Education $ or transport $, or law and order and medical research dollars. The technology is not relevant - it will be land fill eventually no matter what it is. And Asking Whirlpool members if they are NBN fans is like asking the shooters lobby if they like guns. Biased and self serving answers should not be a surprise.
HubertCumberdale Apr 19, 2011 7:46 PM	deepthroat wrote: You all miss the point. The only ones that miss the point are those that think it's all about $$$... deepthroat wrote: This government has decided to spend our tax dollars on a broadband network. boo hoo buu waaah tax payers dollars etc, this is a default response for simpletons whenever a government doesn't do something that appeals to their bias. deepthroat wrote: Their challenge is to explain to the me why an NBN $ is in the nations interest ahead of a Health $ or a Defense $ or an Education $ or transport $, or law and order and medical research dollars. Most of those are state issues, do you understand the difference between national and state issues?
umbria Apr 20, 2011 12:05 AM	@deepthroat, no tax dollars are being spent on the NBN, though a lot were certainly spent paying for parliamentary resources during coalition filibusters over the past year. The NBN is being built with money borrowed for the purpose, to be repaid from wholesale revenue (it won't make sense to ever sell this cash cow, though it is not impossible a future government might try to). @Rossyduck, having lived and worked in Italy for a few years, I can assure you that the ancient aqueducts (repaired in the 16th Century) still deliver high bandwidth water to Rome from mountains in all three directions, guaranteeing year-round supply, even in Rome's dusty summer heat. Both the aqueducts and the modern plumbing are necessary.
umbria Apr 20, 2011 12:07 AM	Do it once. Do it right. Do it with aqueducts.
umbria Apr 20, 2011 12:17 AM	MerariSchroeder wrote: Australians will be expected to pay more (more than what is payed on ADSL2+). Actually, no, because Australians on ADSL2+ also pay at least $21 line rental plus phone call costs (or call plans), which will both vanish when everyone in Australia is on a VoIP service on the NBN. (Only those who choose to keep their copper will suffer these costs.) The minimum NBN speed will be 12 Mbps, six times the median ADSL speed according to the ABS, and NBNCo expects 50% might still be on that speed by 2020. They will not be paying more than at present, but will get more speed and unlimited phone calls for the price.
pameacs Apr 20, 2011 6:36 AM	And I think a lot of what is being said here is exactly why there needs to be more information and a bigger debate with the information. The biggest problem seems to be that at least some of that information is not available, because no one has done the numbers and worked it out or the government is withholding information. On the surface LTE does seem to make a lot of sense, but it like much before it will also have its limitations, FTTH has some but I think they are well known. Saying LTE is the way probably goes down the same path as why the current mobile technologies are not delivering, I had terrible service in the CBD the other day, the one place I would have expected it to scream in performance. As for everyone having access to 24GB ADSL, we all wish, unless you are in an older part of the cities or large country towns like older than 15 years you might get access to such speeds. I am still waiting for Telstra to fix our suburb to give us access to competition, my best is Telstra Cable and its 8MB. Mostly good enough, but not 24 MB ADSL2+ and looking at some of the performance charts suggests that I might only get 6MB from ADSL2 due to distance from the exchange. The idea of the FTTH is that if I buy a 12GB or 24GB plan then that is what I will have at my house. LTE wont offer that it will be variable based on congestion, distance to tower, weather and any other variables that degrade wireless performance. If someone is offering you LTE with some performance guarantee then check the fine print. But once again those are only my informed opinions. Of course it would be good if someone who had the correct information cleared some of the FUD and came clean on a lot of these questions. Perhaps it needs ABC/SBS to tell hold a session and see if some answers are forthcoming
advocate Apr 20, 2011 9:26 AM	Tech based geek website with openly admitted bias and mainly biased moderators supports the NBN. Jeez that is a surprise, nothing new to see here people, move along.
Ace Apr 20, 2011 11:50 AM	It's true I guess. Anyone with an ounce of tech knowledge supports the NBN.
RB Apr 20, 2011 3:29 PM	@umbria: The NBN does not include a VOIP service. That needs to be provided by the RSP. We certainly can't assume at this stage that all RSPs are going to provide a VOIP service for free. The ACCC recently announced new ULL pricing at $16 whereas the NBN Co corporate plan puts a wholesale NBN connection at $28. We'll only know for sure what the prices are once RSPs start selling the product but it's quite likley that a Basic NBN service will be more expensive than (similar) Naked ADSL2.
sputnik Apr 20, 2011 3:49 PM	Can someone take MerariSchroeder's internet away? He's the born again Evangelical of wireless. All his arguements have been shot down both on Whirlpool and other forums/comments.
sputnik Apr 20, 2011 3:55 PM	PS: Of course MerariSchroeder is right and the majority on Whirlpool are wrong. LTE doesn't come anywhere near fibre in terms of speed. Sure wireless is useful when I'm at a cafe or want net at a friends house, but for speed, physics says fibre.
umbria Apr 20, 2011 4:26 PM	@RB, actually (don't have time to track it down - possibly in a CommsDay presentation) the basic phone port functionality will include VoIP and unmetered data for making voice calls. Without today's last-mile copper costs you will soon find that RSPs offer a phone service that includes unlimited calls between NBN VoIP ports at essentially no cost. Right now you can buy 100 national calls to copper lines from MyNetFone for under $10. With no last-mile cost on NBN-to-NBN calls, national calls will be absorbed as a 10-cent cost component of a basic monthly service. And didn't Internode recently suggest basic 12 Mbps pricing from September 2011 of around $40 or $41 to the mainland first-release fibre sites? (Please correct me if I am wrong.) This will immediately replace former line rental and ADSL charges with 12 Mbps all-purpose fibre, and facilitate a monthly VoIP phone bill of $5-10 for a typical household, for a total cost of under $50. Oh, and The Australian still hasn't printed a word about the fact that a few hundred Armidale NBN fibre customers now have a working service (for free until September) since last Monday morning. The Australian has sold its reputation as the IT newspaper of record for thirty pieces of kudos with the coalition. Maybe their Thursday edition will print a few words in the Sports section.
advocate Apr 21, 2011 9:22 AM	umbria wrote: @RB, actually (don't have time to track it down - possibly in a CommsDay presentation) umbria talk for 'I made it up it doesn't exist'. With no last-mile cost on NBN-to-NBN calls, Err what? - complete fantasy. national calls will be absorbed as a 10-cent cost component of a basic monthly service. Complete fabrication, and total rubbish. And didn't Internode recently suggest basic 12 Mbps pricing from September 2011 of around $40 or $41 to the mainland first-release fibre sites? No. This is what Intenode has said about Stage One pricing. Current Status Unlike the Stage 1 areas in Tasmania, high speed NBN broadband services in the First Release sites are not yet available for general sale. Their standard NBN pricing as in Tasmania varies from $39.95 to $149.95 very much like ADSL. http://www.internode.on.net/residential/fibre_to_the_home/nbn_plans/nbn_first_release/ This is what Internode has said about the NBN: http://delimiter.com.au/2011/03/29/insane-nbn-pricing-will-kill-small-isps-hackett/ Internode managing director Simon Hackett today described the National Broadband Network’s pricing model as “insane” for small internet service providers, warning that none will survive their walk through the “valley of death” transition from the current copper network to the fibre future envisioned by the Federal Government. http://delimiter.com.au/2011/04/19/hackett-rubbishes-nbn-co%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98crystal-ball-gazing%E2%80%99/ Internode managing director Simon Hackett has published an impassioned statement responding to the National Broadband Network Company’s attempts to explain its pricing model, accusing the fledgling fibre monopolist of “crystal ball gazing” with regard to its predictions of how much usage its network will see. Don't really want to highlight that sort of comment eh umbria? Oh, and The Australian still hasn't printed a word about the fact that a few hundred Armidale NBN fibre customers now have a working service (for free until September) since last Monday morning. Of course the key phrase in that statement is 'it's free', best not mention the pitifully small uptake in Tasmania and Brunswick eh umbria? Maybe their Thursday edition will print a few words in the Sports section Who cares if they do or don't, the NBN rollout is a expensive white elephant which will have to be propped by generations of taxpayers. Edited by advocate: 21/4/2011 09:27:57 AM Edited by advocate: 21/4/2011 10:14:57 AM
advocate Apr 21, 2011 9:46 AM	singo79 wrote: The results are a boost for the Government and NBNCo. They are? - a tech geek site supports tech tyre kicker geek rollout, (as long as the rest of the sucker taxpayers pay for it of course). but you have to remember that most of the people that visit Whirlpool already have some form of IT experience or interest that the general population doesn't. ....and this is of significance why?, the total arrogance in that statement is the best example of pro-NBN BS you will see in a long time. unlike the NBN nay-sayers who can only see one side of the fence. Of course the pro-NBN lobby are totally objective in their view, and of course those against the NBN cannot possibly be from the IT profession or interest either. All this poll showed was that people with an understanding of the IT & Telecommunication industry back the NBN and labelled wireless as a supporting technology. oh ok so thanks to biased Whirlpool with its biased moderation it can go ahead, jeez that was so easy eh? I really think that NBNCo. need to be doing a lot more to communicate with the average Joe Blow on the street, the ones who have little idea about the technology used Yes perhaps they need to communicate why the build tender failed a bit better, and why there will be anticipated cost blowouts, and why ISP's are complaining about the costing model, and why generations of taxpayers will be propping up this turkey.
umbria Apr 21, 2011 11:27 AM	Can you believe that advocate spent ninety minutes writing those two posts, folks? I'm with singo that Whirlpool is not perfect, but is a great resource for technical newbies and confused buyers of telco services and devices. Meanwhile, pameacs is spot on, that LTE (sorry MerariSchroeder) cannot deliver everything, and that a whole lot more plain English educational material needs to be brought to public attention. Advocate would call this propaganda, and indeed propagation of facts is the only way to dispel the self-contradictory FUD that opponents of the NBN put out. Good news stories and case studies will soon be flooding in from the well-organised locals in Armidale, who ran their own education campaign in the information vacuum, leading to 90% take-up. It is now the fourth weekday that hundreds of Armidale NBN fibre customers have been using their new active service and narry a word from The Australian, which runs two or three NBN stories daily. Shame, Mitchell Bingemann et al! I only hope it is your editor's fault that you and your colleagues remain mute on this breaking news that is of interest to your technical readers worldwide. Happy Easter, everyone.
advocate Apr 21, 2011 12:25 PM	Ahh umbria, I noticed you did not address one single point I made when ripping apart your BS post point by point, you then went off on your usual agenda driven pro-NBN waffle, spreading even more BS. Keep your head in the sand, ignore what you don't want to see in your sad little pro NBN fantasy world.
Ace Apr 21, 2011 12:52 PM	Well @umbria, if you were using dial-up, it'd probably take you that long as well.
HubertCumberdale Apr 21, 2011 5:02 PM	advocate wrote: Who cares if they do or don't, the NBN rollout is a expensive white elephant which will have to be propped by generations of taxpayers. White elephants on iTnews: 59 White elephants on The Australian: 108 Come on guys, we are half way there! We can beat them!
anonymous Apr 21, 2011 6:42 PM	YES, Hubert, let's see if we can overtake the acknowledged cheerleaders of anti-NBN FUD and, er, bovine deposits. Sorry this post is so short, but unlike the apparent situation of adv-, I mean, some people, I don't get paid to spend hours on this stuff. And stuff does seem to be the right word.
tallguy Apr 21, 2011 9:24 PM	No wonder we have a problem with global warming guys. All the hot air being generated on this forum ;-) A little more reference to facts (from both supporters & nay-sayers), and less reliance on assumptions, emotions and half truths would move this discussion forward much more constructively.
advocate Apr 26, 2011 9:44 AM	anonymous wrote: I don't get paid to spend hours on this stuff. I doubt if you spend more than 30 seconds on your 'stuff' , you don't ever say anything. Edited by advocate: 26/4/2011 09:44:53 AM
Ace Apr 26, 2011 11:11 PM	Oops @advocate. Pot. Kettle Black.
yum-e Apr 30, 2011 11:17 PM	maybe we should let the 'Unhinged one' build us the new super inter-webs: requirements (1) string (2) 2x empty cans (3) nail (4) hammer. which is as useful as wireless when it rains here's a useful quote for our braindead friends "THz radiation is strongly absorbed by the atmosphere, working distances may be short and individual THz picocells may cover only single rooms or at the most one building" optical fibre has already reached speeds of 100Tbps how in all that's holey is wireless ever going to be anything other than to supplement fibre backbone you cretins...