US telco supplier claims 100 Mbps on copper

By Liam Tung on Oct 27, 2010 6:52 AM
Filed under Networking

Sweating copper, chasing fibre.

US telecommunications vendor Ikanos this week released NodeScale Vectoring which it claimed could deliver broadband speeds of 100 Mbps over existing copper very highspeed digital subscriber line (VDSL) networks.

"Ikanos' NodeScale Vectoring technology will deliver the performance of fibre at one-tenth the cost of fibre-to-the-home," said John Quigley, CEO and president at Ikanos.

It analysed interference between paired copper lines and created "compensation signals" that cancelled out noise, Ikanos said.

In Australia, TransACT operated a VDSL network in the nation's capital linked by fibre-to-the-curb providing "triple-play" services - voice, video, data - to about 55,000 houses. TransACT was upgrading its network to VDSL2 to deliver download and upload speeds of 30 Mbps and 10 Mbps, respectively.

ZTE Corporation was demonstrating its first NodeScale-equipped DSLAM this week at the Broadband World Forum in Paris, France.

Nokia Siemens Networks also trotted out its new "phantom" noise-cancelling DSL technology, which it claimed could deliver speeds 850 Mbps over 400 metres and 750 Mbps over 500 metres of "bonded copper".

But rival Alcatel-Lucent - the first major network equipment provider for Australia's national broadband network - announced its phantom VDSL technology in April promising 300 Mbps over 400 metres and for which it won the broadband innovation gong at the Paris forum.

Alcatel's Bell Labs explained that "phantom mode technology" eliminated interference between copper lines and allowed capacity over individual lines to be aggregated.

Nokia Siemens Networks described it as "virtual channel" that supplemented standard twisted-copper configurations, boosting bandwidth by 50 percent to 75 percent.

The company's head of its broadband access business, Eduard Scheiterer said fibre was a long-term solution for higher speeds but that phantom extended the life of copper networks.

"Phantom circuits help operators provide an efficient last mile connectivity with existing copper wires," he said.

US telco supplier claims 100 Mbps on copper

16 comments in this discussion

"deteego wrote: You're quite a presumptuous beast aren't you? Exactly how would you know what businesses I have run in my time? I do btw. Because its obvious ;) HubertCumberdale wrote: ..."

By deteego

Tags

copper, fibre, network, ikanos, phantom, vdsl, vdsl2, dslam, transact, nokia, siemens, zte, broadband world forum

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Comments: 16

MerariSchroeder Oct 27, 2010 10:12 AM	Thanks for reporting this Liam. "will deliver the performance of fibre at one-tenth the cost of fibre-to-the-home" So why are we being ripped off with the NBN! And before anyone attempts to rebut on "future speed increments" - FTTH CAN still be layed WHEN its' needed, WHEN we need more than 100Mbps. And it CAN still be run out in CBD hotspots, we still CAN lay fibre out to under-serviced regional centres. The current NBN plan needs to be changed or scrapped!
realitybites Oct 27, 2010 10:55 AM	But over what distance? I see Nokia has 400m and 500m I see Alcatel has 400m Where is the distance for Ikanos? Is it safe to assume that the distance limits will be the same? And what if the copper is crap? Lipstick -> pig?
sparky3387 Oct 27, 2010 11:09 AM	And also: These are all dual bonded (in other words two phone lines) technologies! These technologies wont work in regional Australia where a vast majority of the populace are further than 1km from the exchange.
HubertCumberdale Oct 27, 2010 11:52 AM	realitybites wrote: But over what distance? I see Nokia has 400m and 500m I see Alcatel has 400m Where is the distance for Ikanos? Is it safe to assume that the distance limits will be the same? And what if the copper is crap? Lipstick -> pig? Exactly. And what about upload speeds? there is no mention of that either I assume it's just as bad as ADSL2+, this is exactly why we need the NBN. All these poorly devised stop gap technologies people keep mentioning are just going to cost us more in the long run.
Ezy2Confuze Oct 27, 2010 1:31 PM	I think the fact that Telstra are more than happy to transfer their customers onto NBN infrastructure speaks for itself as far as copper is concerned. They've already said they don't want to keep their copper up to scratch because of the maintenance costs.
HubertCumberdale Oct 27, 2010 1:49 PM	Ezy2Confuze wrote: I think the fact that Telstra are more than happy to transfer their customers onto NBN infrastructure speaks for itself as far as copper is concerned. They've already said they don't want to keep their copper up to scratch because of the maintenance costs. Coincidentally my internet connection was only at about half speed since last Friday (15th) kept dropping out and had NO dial tone at all. It was just fixed yesterday but work still needs to be done so my connection will be disrupted again. All these cable replacements are costing Telstra and that cost ultimately gets passed onto us.
Tom Brown Oct 27, 2010 3:18 PM	Thankyou Liam for stirring up the wasps. But all this is not new news and I reckon you mention this to stir up rivals. The technology is neither adaptable to general Australian usage nor cost effective in the demographic. Its use is for close haul where alternatives are not readily available. If Australia went for some mishmash of technologies there would be no end to technical problems. The consumer needs better surety of service! Merari: it is noted in the article Para 4 from residence to curb and then not much better than ADSL2 and then it still requires Fibre the rest of the way. So overall just how much cheaper are we talking. Unfortunately your bent narrows your vision. Ikanos who are claiming 1/10 th cost of fibre will be using their best scenario and I do not deny their objectives also they are equating their performance with that of fibre and that is not at all accurate, it will never be close to the speed of fibre.
camerond01 Oct 27, 2010 3:33 PM	As sparky3387 said, this tech uses more than one copper pair, and look to be aimed at new installations that have the option of putting in multiple pairs of wires. Doing so in Australia would be throwing away good money after bad. As for the speed claims of fibre these are clearly the words of someone wanting to sell something, not accurate technical specs.
midspace Oct 28, 2010 12:04 PM	Yes, what distance for the Ikanos? From other articles I've read, it only provies this speed up to about 1 Km, then it degrades quite quickly to the same speeds as ADSL2+. What is the point of this, for people who live more than 1Km away from the exchange? Do these Tech developers know how many people live more than 1Km away from the exchange? If I look at the coverage maps from TPG (http://www.tpg.com.au/maps/), I get the impression that more than 50% of people live more than a 1Km away from their exchange. For these people (including me), this technology is simply usless. Until fibre is installed, I, like many people will be stuck at speeds only rated for ADSL1.
deteego Oct 28, 2010 4:19 PM	realitybites wrote: But over what distance? I see Nokia has 400m and 500m I see Alcatel has 400m Where is the distance for Ikanos? Is it safe to assume that the distance limits will be the same? And what if the copper is crap? Lipstick -> pig? Nokia Siemens Networks also trotted out its new "phantom" noise-cancelling DSL technology, which it claimed could deliver speeds 850 Mbps over 400 metres and 750 Mbps over 500 metres of "bonded copper". Doesn't sound too bad to me
deteego Oct 28, 2010 4:20 PM	Tom Brown wrote: The technology is neither adaptable to general Australian usage nor cost effective in the demographic. Its use is for close haul where alternatives are not readily available. And you know this how, you work/charge of a telecommunications company that knows the costs of doing something like this? Come on man, I wanna see your credentials. According to you upgrading to ADSL wasn't cost effective at all....
HubertCumberdale Oct 28, 2010 5:00 PM	deteego wrote: Nokia Siemens Networks also trotted out its new "phantom" noise-cancelling DSL technology, which it claimed could deliver speeds 850 Mbps over 400 metres and 750 Mbps over 500 metres of "bonded copper". Doesn't sound too bad to me And people living beyond the magical 500 metre zone? you have a 750mbps solution for them? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. deteego wrote: Come on man, I wanna see your credentials. Why would someone need "credentials" to work out the obvious?
realitybites Oct 28, 2010 5:20 PM	Well it does sound impressive, but as Hubert and other point out, if you live more than 500m from the exchange, it's useless. It also made me wonder if there would be any impact on other services such as plain old voice? I'm referring to the bonding part. I assume the equipment at the exchange that performs the bonding would treat it just as a normal pair for voice?
deteego Oct 28, 2010 5:21 PM	HubertCumberdale wrote: Sounds like a waste of time and money to me. Yeah but you don't know anything about economics or running a business, but thanks for the enlightenment Quote: Why would someone need "credentials" to work out the obvious? Because its not obvious. I don't see any proof from you that its a waste of money. In fact ripping out cables and installing new ones when you can just use the old cable to provide the exact same service (up to 100mbit's) is what sounds like a waste of money Not sure you realise, but like 90% of the cost in installing FTTH is the labor of ripping out old cables, installing them, digging trenches etc etc Edited by deteego: 28/10/2010 05:22:21 PM
HubertCumberdale Oct 28, 2010 5:50 PM	deteego wrote: Yeah but you don't know anything about economics or running a business You're quite a presumptuous beast aren't you? Exactly how would you know what businesses I have run in my time? I do btw. deteego wrote: but thanks for the enlightenment NP, I enjoy helping the needy and downtrodden. deteego wrote: Because its not obvious. Not to you perhaps with your 2 digit IQ... deteego wrote: I don't see any proof from you that its a waste of money. Just ask Telstra, they were in my street this week fixing a fault on my line (most likely rain water caused it) and they still have to replace a cable. deteego wrote: In fact ripping out cables and installing new ones when you can just use the old cable to provide the exact same service (up to 100mbit's) is what sounds like a waste of money Up to 100mbit? LOL, will be able to get up to 1gbit in the future too? Holy shit sign me up!!! deteego wrote: Not sure you realise, but like 90% of the cost in installing FTTH is the labor of ripping out old cables, installing them, digging trenches etc etc Good. rip the shit up I'm sick of it, lay fibre I hear that stuff is faster.
deteego Oct 28, 2010 5:54 PM	deteego wrote: You're quite a presumptuous beast aren't you? Exactly how would you know what businesses I have run in my time? I do btw. Because its obvious ;) HubertCumberdale wrote: Good. rip the shit up I'm sick of it, lay fibre I hear that stuff is faster. Yeah and thats also the reason why its much less cost effective then just upgrading a DSLAM to use that technology....