Commentary: Why we don't need a filter

 

ISP engineer Mark Newton antagonises the net's agony aunt.

I swear, if I see one more commentator buying-in to Senator Conroy's spin about child pornography on the Internet I'm going to pop an artery.

There are plenty of other places where you can read all about how the Enex Testlab report released by the Minister on Tuesday decimates the case for the Government's policy, so I'm not going to rehash that here.

But I'm going to go into an important issue which sits right at the core of the debate, which is, "What, exactly, is the Government planning to block?"

In one sense that's a fairly easy question to answer, because the Minister told us exactly what he's going to block. In his speech, measure number 1 was, "The introduction of mandatory ISP-level filtering of Refused Classification (RC)-rated content."

After saying that, the Minister did his usual trick of clouding the issue by talking about child abuse material, as if that was somehow related to the RC concept and a legitimate inclusion in the debate.

Egged on by his friends at the Australian Christian Lobby, he's done this so often that the terms "Refused Classification" and "illegal" are virtually synonymous in many peoples' minds, even though they're totally different concepts, and even though the Classification Board has no power to make any finding of illegality pertaining to any content in any media.

So lets clear the air a bit: What, exactly, is "Refused Classification" content?

It's fairly simple. Picture Aunt Gladys from Cootamundra, who has rarely actually used the Internet but has some terribly strong opinions about what's on it. Aunt Gladys receives some spam one afternoon, clicks on a link, and finds herself looking at a pornography site.

"This is terrible!" Gladys harrumphs, "Something must be done!" and she calls the police to lodge a complaint about the awful, disgusting imagery that she's only just now discovered is on the Internet.

Following up her complaint, the police examine it, and determine that there's nothing illegal there. But Gladys is insistent: Something must be done! Brushing her off, the police tell her that she can submit Internet content complaints through the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) so that she can run away and hassle them instead of wasting police time.

So she bustles herself back to her telephone and calls the NetAlert Hotline, disturbing ACMA from their Kyle Sandilands deliberations for long enough to take down the particulars of her complaint. Three months later they finally get around to looking at it, and send her a sympathetic email message confirming that the web page she's found is Refused Classification and Prohibited Content. There there, my dear Gladys, have a pat on the head and an elephant stamp on your wrist. Consider yourself validated.

ACMA is the agony aunt of the Internet. Their job is to listen to all the Gladys' of Australia, the people who want to complain about things that aren't actually illegal, a veritable online version of the Letters to the Editor page in the Northern Territory News.

None of that tut-tutting would happen if Gladys had found actual illegal material. If she'd reported illegal content to the police, they'd have never referred her to ACMA, they'd simply start the process of gathering evidence, issuing interception warrants to find out who had published the material and who was downloading it, and generally doing whatever they need to do to get distributors of illegal content behind bars. They'd do the whole thing in secret, like they do with every other criminal investigation they conduct, and both ACMA and the Classification Board would rarely get a look-in.

If Gladys had reported illegal content to ACMA, they'd send it straight to the police too. That's what they have to do -- The Broadcasting Services Act compels them.

If content is actually illegal, there's no ridiculous time-wasting messing around with blacklists, the material is supposed to be taken down and the perpetrators arrested, no questions asked, no second-guessing.

To summarise: The only content that's ever blacklisted, RC or otherwise, is that which is legal, but offensive to people like Gladys. That's the purpose the "RC" category serves under Australian law.

That's why the three ACMA blacklists published by Wikileaks in March 2009 didn't contain any child pornography, despite ACMA's continued discredited insistence that approximately half of their silly, smutty little list is rated "RC - Child Depiction."

Google gets this. On Wednesday they slammed the Government's policy: "Our primary concern is that the scope of content to be filtered is too wide."

They went on: "Refused classification is a broad category of content that includes not just child sexual abuse material but also socially and politically controversial material - for example, educational content on safer drug use - as well as the grey realms of material instructing in any crime, including politically controversial crimes such as euthanasia." Google reminds us that being homosexual was a crime in Tasmania until 1997, and information about it could have been (and was) Refused Classification, ripe for banning by Conroy's rabbit-proof firewall.

Google isn't alone in making these observations. Earlier this week, University of New South Wales law professors released a paper entitled, "Untangling the Net: The Scope of Content Caught By Mandatory Internet Filtering," which identified a wide gamut of legal content that would be swept up in Senator Conroy's RC net, and criticised the application of mandatory ISP censorship to the Australian Internet.

The Government can't avoid this. In February, ACMA themselves were in the Parliament insisting that photographs published on an anti-abortion site were Refused Classification. And for several years Australia has been the only nation in the world to ban Dr. Phillip Nitschke's book, "The Peaceful Pill," as a Refused Classification publication.

Under Senator Conroy's plan, you'll still be able to legally buy the book on amazon.com, but unlike everyone else in the world you won't be able to read it on your Kindle or watch the accompanying DVD on Youtube.

For some time, the Government has been claiming that "the new filter rules are not intended to curtail freedom of speech."

But they can't avoid the fact that the RC category is, by its very existence, a curtailment on free speech. It stands alone as a category of legal material which the Government has decided you aren't allowed to see.

If anything comes out of this discussion, I'd like to see Australian media commentators (who are more affected by censorship than virtually any other segment of the Australian population) understand that "RC" is not the same as "illegal" or "child pornography." Joining the two concepts together is a manipulative rhetorical tactic the Minister is using to garner support for his obnoxious policy, and I'm sure that the protectors of the Fourth Estate are clever enough to avoid being drawn in to it.

It's well past the time when the Government should be given the benefit of the doubt on this issue. Senator Conroy has spent two years blazing a trail of such spectacular wrongness, where his every utterance on the subject of censorship has been picked apart for the entertainment of enraptured onlookers. It's high time for some skepticism: The Minister must be held to account, and forced to explain what he hopes to achieve, and how, exactly, his censorship policy will help him to achieve it.

Mark Newton is a network engineer at Australian ISP Internode. The opinions expressed here are his own.


Commentary: Why we don't need a filter
"Mr Newton, I believe the laws and Constitution of Australia disagree with you on this point: ""But they can't avoid the fact that the RC category is, by its very existence, a curtailment on free ..."
By Maxxi
 
 
 
Comments: 31
mollyfud
Dec 17, 2009 12:05 PM
I really think the problem isn't the filter, its the list and the list creation/maintenance process. Although there is a list today, it seems that it is a trail list and the gov have thrown open to discussion how the list should be made and how it should be maintained.

I also think some of the things you bring up aren't arguments of censorship (they are but they aren't, stick with me on this one) as much they are arguments of what our laws are. I.e. On Phil's book being banned, it isn't banned (as I understand it) because it discusses whether euthanasia and if it is a good thing to allow it or not, its banned as it discusses methods of preforming (if that is the right word) euthanasia, which (whether you or I agree or not) both euthanasia and therefor instructing people on how to administer drugs for euthanasia are both illegal (again, whether we like it or not). In this case, I don't think arguing its on the filter so the filter is wrong is the right argument. If you are in favor of euthanasia (which I passively am), argue that but it is consistent with the offline policy (i.e. the physical book is banned) to ban the online version.

JMTC
Molly
Bourkie
Dec 17, 2009 1:13 PM
Thanks so much for your erudite words Mark.

I have also been stating the obvious fact that RC does not equal illegal since October last year...

I also have had quite a long-running email exchange with Bernadette from ChildWise on this exact issue.

To this day she, and ChildWise, only support the blocking of illegal material - not RC. Hopefully more organizations like ChildWise come out and state this on the record as well.

Cheers mate.
Bourkie
Dec 17, 2009 1:17 PM
Molly, assaulting someone physically is illegal.

Yet we see this on the evening news and in movies every night of the year.

Committing an act may be illegal (e.g. euthanasia).

But video (or text) detailing that same act are usually legal.

RC is not illegal.
Bourkie
Dec 17, 2009 1:27 PM
The Government's own Enex report states that all of the filters will break if high-traffic-volume URLs are added to the blacklist.

So all we have to do is upload some abortion, euthanasia, and fetish/fantasy videos onto YouTube and then report them here:

https://web.acma.gov.au/AimsWeb/index.html?scriptMode=true

It'll only take a couple of us to be successful to completely destroy all technical feasibility of the RC categories.
iflowboy
Dec 17, 2009 2:27 PM
Hi,

The reality is that the internet is not a broadcast medium and that is where the debate should stop. It is a subscription - or "pull" medium. I believe that our ACMA rules already cover the innappropriate use of images and content in advertising and that should be the only area where any government intervention or legislation should intercede.
I certainly am appalled by things such as child pornography like the next normal person, but I do not think putting any sort of mandatory filtering will "stop" this behaviour.
The whole question of "viewing" content in relation to perpetrating an act against another citizen is quite vexed.
I think the government needs to contemplate exactly what constitutes an illegal act, and draft legislation around that itself, rather than look to start a dangerous precedent of controlling content availability.

To do anything more than this is censorship and it will be widely seen as such without much more detailed legal consultation and clarification of these specific points made public.
Sean Smith
QLD
mattybaus
Dec 17, 2009 2:30 PM
As an ISP engineer you probably either drink or dont drink
I have never found an almost drinker in that crowd.

Buy yourself one - this is probably the one and only atricle I have read in Computerworld, ZDNet and ITNews all year that was actually worth the time.

Please dont become a journalist - you would then need to take a stand ;-)
anonymous
Dec 17, 2009 3:23 PM
Most of the protectors of the Fourth Estate are certainly savvy enough not to get sucked in by the political spin being floated.

Some of their employers in the news and content corporations may be reluctant to allow them to be too critical, though. Secret censorship of the Net could be a mighty fine way to corral them downloadin' varmints - perhaps much better than having to run A FACTual case in public!
Mordd
Dec 17, 2009 3:36 PM
Well said Mark, the veins in my forehead are throbbing from all the "Refused Classification = Illegal Child Porn" comments ive read in the past 48 hours. Its good to see people trying to inject some truth back into the debate.

Not to mention the fact that most child porn will be distributed via closed usenet groups, email, IRC, P2P, IM, and other forms of communication the filter either won't be able to block in the first place or which will will cause entire port range blocking to be used thereby stopping the 99% of legitimate users from being able to use those services as well to block the less than 1% of users who use those services for illegal purposes.
Maxxi
Dec 17, 2009 4:22 PM
Bourkie, that is inaccurate. Only those small filters tested would not be powerful enough for high traffic implementations.

The Enex report only refers to the systems tested in the trial, you may want to read that report more closely...
laughoutloud
Dec 17, 2009 4:33 PM
Very well articulated article (1 thing) that is wrong with this policy.

How do we get articles like this actually out from the tech section and into more main stream circulation? Its astonishing the level of credulity displayed by so called 'journalists' that just copy/paste Conroy's media releases.
Maxxi
Dec 17, 2009 4:33 PM
Bourkie, legal or illegal yesterday, once new laws or sttautes are passed that deem content types to be illegal, then at that point they are illegal.

The courts do not reach judgements based what was illegal yesterday, they will apply the law as it stands at that time.

If legislation is passed to address these content types when the filter legislation is passed, then we will have the legal definitions the agencies will require, in order to apply the filter actions and address the content.

So if you are pulled over for driving 90kph in an 80kph zone, and your defense is that you could drive 90kph here last year, you will still get a ticket.

Learn to live with it mate, the legal status of the defined content groups will be regulated long before the new ISP filter laws are enforced...
donn prud
Dec 17, 2009 6:18 PM
The Senator is claiming that his filter is 100%. That it will not slow any connection, but more importantly, it is 100% accurate in filtering out child pornography and other RC/illegal material. It has to be 100%, any admission of flaws in it's ability to filter the internet would be an admission that it does not work.

By making it mandatory, it is taking the freedom of choice away from the individual. But it also means that the filter is also taking away the responsibility from the individual.

Because if the filter is as foolproof as is claimed, ALL internet material that can be accessed in Australia MUST be legal. Otherwise the foolproof filter would have blocked that material.

The scary? This filter means it will be IMPOSSIBLE to prosecute any person for accessing child pornography on the internet. Senator Conroy is in fact making it EASIER and LEGAL for pedophiles to collect and exchange their sickening material.
davidk
Dec 17, 2009 10:03 PM
If anyone wants to know how "Refused Classification" is defined, the Classification Guidelines for Film and Computer Games are here:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrumentCompilation1.nsf/framelodgmentattachments/6C888688A3BBD40ACA2574120004F72A
BrettWinterford
Dec 18, 2009 9:38 AM
@mattybaus - this is the first good iTnews.com.au article of the year? Say it ain't so! What coverage is missing? Drop me a line, I'd be grateful to hear it.
Bourkie
Dec 18, 2009 9:42 AM
Maxxi wrote:
'Only those small filters tested would not be powerful enough for high traffic implementations.'

Wrong Maxxi; this is an extract from the report:

'Capacity of filters to handle high traffic loads/sites

In a pass-by filtering solution the actual traffic load placed through the filters is very low because only a small percentage of end-users would be attempting to access sites on the blacklist at any one time. However, in situations where there is a potential for very high traffic sites, such as YouTube, to have pages on the filtering list, this could result in significantly higher traffic rates passing through the filter, even though the specific pages being accessed are not those on the blacklist. This could cause additional load on the filtering infrastructure and subsequent performance bottlenecks.

To support peaks in traffic, vendors recommend allowing additional network capacity of approximately four times the estimated traffic at the filter.'


Note that last sentence. There is no way YouTube would ever want to enforce the Australian RC categories on Australia's behalf. Why? Because they're the dumbest idea since Hitler's mum said to Hitler's dad 'let's go upstairs honey, I'm feeling randy'.
Asphodela
Dec 18, 2009 11:24 AM
'...you'll still be able to legally buy the book (The Peaceful Pill) on amazon.com, but...won't be able to read it on your Kindle or watch..on Youtube'
Yes, you could buy the book, but it would be seized by Customs as 'objectionable goods' (as has been the case since it was refused classification). You can't generally export such items back to the vendor for a refund, so there goes your dough along with the chance to inform yourself about this complex and controversial subject.
Mordd
Dec 18, 2009 5:43 PM
Maxxi is the digger11 of the Filtering Legislation debate it appears, who wants to bet he works for Conroy's office?
anonymous
Dec 18, 2009 6:07 PM
Aw, come on, Mordd, how do you know its a "he"? It seems you may be right about what has become our resident troll, though.
Maxxi
Dec 22, 2009 1:05 AM
Hey Mordd, nice to hear from you again...

You seem to have sort of personal problem with digger11..

Gee I wish I had a nice job with the fed gov, but sorry to disappoint you, I have no job there...

And anonymous, with what right do you label someone a "troll"?? Hmmmm? Care to define "troll"?

Is this your thread mate?

Now if Brett informs me that I am trolling then I will consider that seriously.

But you are right, I might be a "she".

So if I understand your positioning, someone who does not agree with your views, and continues to do so, and has the audacity to make comments to that end, is a "resident troll"??

lol, you guys just crack me up sometimes... >;))
Maxxi
Dec 22, 2009 1:16 AM
@Bourkie:

Those results printed in the report relate only to the systems chosen by and tested by the ISPs in the trial. The same for the Telstra report.

That does not represent the capabilities of the other products and technologies in the market today, just the ones those ISPs used.

The gov is also not specifying these products for the program. This was not a POC for an RFP or product selection process at all. They wanted to trial and test specific aspects of filtering technologies in general, and came up with some results.

Thus Telstra and ENEX both saw those limitations **on those products they had tested**.

They also note that they have reviewed and seen products and technologies, which were not taken and tested by the ISPs, that already handle 10Gbps+ per device per gateway, and can be cascaded/stacked in load balanced config to accomodate major telco gateways.

This is also stock standard implementation mode in the world of telcos. These systems are then not hybrid proxy models, but usually BGP redirection URL filters, and are used by various telcos globally for multi-million user networks today...

These systems, btw, have no problems with YouTube, Google, Yahoo etc. They can also handle 100,000 URL blacklists with one fiftieth the time span of a fast wink per look-up and policy application... >;))

Pity Hitler's dad did not know when to say "not tonight darling, I have a headache...."
mollyfud
Dec 22, 2009 11:30 AM
@Bourkie I agree with you to some degree. You are right that to report on something that is illegal is legal. My understanding though is to publish instructions on how to do something illegal (i.e. to write a manual on how to go about killing onesself in a controlled manner, perhaps with a set of drugs) is illegal/not allowed (I accept that illegal might not be the write word, blocked/banned might be better ones).

My understanding is also that if a site was debating the merits of euthanasia, that is perfectly fine (as long as in doing so they are instructing on it as well).
Bourkie
Dec 22, 2009 11:52 AM
Maxxi wrote:
'That does not represent the capabilities of the other products and technologies in the market today, just the ones those ISPs used.'

Since almost all of the systems were M86's off-the shelf 8e6 R3000 Internet Filtering product, please point me to your better products that you are referring to?
Bourkie
Dec 22, 2009 12:01 PM
Maxxi wrote:
'They also note that they have reviewed and seen products and technologies, which were not taken and tested by the ISPs, that already handle 10Gbps+ per device per gateway, and can be cascaded/stacked in load balanced config to accomodate major telco gateways.'

More than 5 million internet connections times an average of 100mbps (NBN - some will be faster, some slower) = a conservative Australian bandwidth estimate of 500,000 Gbps ber second.

How much does your new filtering hardware cost to handle that much bandwidth?

And since we already know the filter can be bypassed, and that the blacklist has already been leaked several times, and therefore these two facts alone prove that any money spent is money wasted... then how can you justify wasting that amount you just calculated?!
Maxxi
Dec 22, 2009 1:13 PM
Hi Bourkie. Well first of all show me a single, any, just one ISP network that is scoped and architected to run at all users times the averaged speed....

BTW, the NBN is scoped to run at up to 100Mbps at this time, with averaged speeds across al users far lower.

So soz mate, but 500,000Gbps is massively inaccurate. Apart from that Bourkie, the systems that will be implemented are not inline and do not need to process all the traffic.

You may want to get more acquainted with the technical process prior to posting these questions.

The BGP routers will be all running at their foreseen capacities at whatever capacity the ISPs require, and will reroute outbound requests that address the IP ranges related to the URLs in the blacklist. Correct?

This, if you can follow me, means that only a small percentage of the overall traffic ever reaches the filter system, and that the inbound traffic, being the vast majority of the data, never traverses the filter.

Hmmmmm, traffic numbers begin to look real small by now....??

So hardware costs for a 16Gbps traffic gateway can cost less than $10K USD. (actual traffic, real tr4affic, not postulated traffic Bourkie)

Please also catch up on the status of blacklist security and the proposed RC list, which has been clearly stated is not the ACMA blacklist...

Whether it is money wasted is a subjective speculation, but I am happy to calculate money levels based on factual scenarios, OK?

Thanks
Maxxi
Dec 22, 2009 2:22 PM
Hi Bourkie, is your interest to actually know about technologies and platforms that deliver the technical requirements and performance for blacklist filtering at this level, or just to start the usual product or person bashing that so often happens on these forums (ie WP) and is a total waste of time?

I have seen references to at least one of these products previousoly in these debates/forums, but a whole slather of time wasting bulldust followed from folks who managed to find several blog entries somewhere with complaints (very normal to have complaints...) on a system that had been servicing over a million users on a single site for 6 years...

Or, which was a classic, someone proceeded to attack the product based on a total lack of knowledge, and then the discussion moved very quickly to attacks on a personal level...

So the question is, are you genuinely interested in knowing more about technologies that will do the job at a performance level, or just looking for some chinks in the armour in order to dismiss them asap...?

I would not like to expose my partners and clients to the same type of language that some folks in child protection agencies have been subjected to in the past...

Let me know and thanks.
Bourkie
Dec 22, 2009 2:46 PM
Maxxi wrote:
'Please also catch up on the status of blacklist security and the proposed RC list, which has been clearly stated is not the ACMA blacklist...'

In case you didn't already realize - the blacklist was 'obtained' not leaked by someone with access to it directly. Security had no effect whatsoever on it being leaked several times this year - and certainly wont have any effect on it being leaked in the future:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2005/may/26/onlinesupplement

Of what relevance is it that the list is the RC component of the ACMA blacklist or not - a list is a list, and it will be released - I can wager $5,000 on that!
merps
Dec 23, 2009 11:09 AM
@Maxxi
It is good to see a healthy debate on the technicalities of the internet filter systems, be it inline or by-pass. You have raised approximate prices for equipment that could be used.

First question, who 'truly' pays for these systems, tax payer, isp customers or telcos. I can, beyond a shadow of a doubt, see that these costs will be pushed back to the consumers.

You would also know from working in this industry, especially with the telcos, that every cent is screwed out of costing so the 'top-of-the-line' systems WILL never be bought - just enough to do the assume 75-80% capacity of links.

That aside - it appears that the big-picture is being missed. Take a step back and ask yourself 'why do we need the government to do the jobs of the parents?'

What other aspects of your life would you like the government to control? Did you elect Conroy to office - are you happy with the cost blow outs that could be used elsewhere (health, welfare for example) to benefit society as a whole?

Are you happy the minority religious groups have a greater say in the running of the country then useful organisations - for example, Amnesty International?

The question, rather then debating to techincal pro's and con's or even the catch phrase - think of the children - why is the information being controlled and to what end?

Because - at the end of the day - it appears that the elected officials are NOT listening to the people and putting in place systems to control those said people. Is that what you really want for yourself or future generations?
Maxxi
Dec 23, 2009 10:46 PM
@Merps: The consumer always ends up paying in these cases, that is clear.

One way or the other.

On the question of capacity planning, it is a mixed bag. Some providers over-engineer ridiculously, some plan with a standard 100% to 120% of forecasted load capacity and require a scalable architecture, some try and cut whatever corners they can.

It is mostly not so much a question of link capacity, but of forecasted traffic levels and typical traffic profiles at peak usage for each segment.

On the big picture front, well that is another question. I was responding to claims on the technology side that were not accurate or complete.

When I look at this from the "bigger picture side", then I need to look at all valid aspects of both sides of the debate, and respect the context of their positions, and how these equate to the overall situation.

There are interdependancies...

The bigger picture requires that we look at all aspects of what the gov has proposed in it's current state of play.

There are a couple of fundamentals to what they want to achieve, and these go beyond "thinking of the children..."

First and foremost, which I see as justified, is to bring the regulation of the content delivery aspects of the internet in line with other content delivery mediums, channels, formats, facilities etc.

Whatever brings content to the eyes and ears of the Australian public. It has been regulated to the satisfaction of the Australian public for many decades, and I expect that this will also transpire here, although naturally some segments of the public are very much opposed to the proposed filtering.

This question goes beyond doing the job that parents should be doing...

There is and always was contract in some format between a democratic society and the government that they elect. Every society has it's limits on what it will and will not accept, and where this cannot be regulated by the individuals within a society, then it becomes a matter for government regulation.

That is why we give them powers to create and enforce legislation merps, and we retain the power to remove them by majority vote if they break their end of the social contract. (ie fail to deliver, give us the irrits, lie and deceive too much, become arrogant, WorkChoices, Whitlams excesses, etc)

Australian society has expectations that the gov will regulate aspects of law that pertain to social issues, rights, community standards, media regulation, also censorship, etc.

I am apolitical, however I was convinced that the Howard gov had significantly overstepped its mandate, had become arrogant and had seriously broken their social contract. So I expected the ALP to win clearly.

There are costs blowouts and developments in our economy that dwarf the proposed filter costs, and additional funds and resources have been committed to the AFP and other related agencies as well. There are enough other areas where spending could be easily reduced to cover this.

It is often a matter of perception or assertion when speaking of what benefits society as a whole. As a society we seek balance in these demands and expectations on our national resources.

It is not proven at all that minority religious groups have more say in the running of the country than anybody else, and it is a mute point categorising one group as "useful" and another group as "not useful" by direct inference merps...

Some would perceive that inference, and I am not but using the example, as religious discrimination... It is so easy to assert and speculate today...

Now your next question is a good question, and some folks could do well, again not referring to yourself as I do not know you well enough, to look at htis question from a broader horizon perspective.

The first question is what information is actually being controlled, and to which degree do Australians accept this information being "controlled" in other mediums or formats.

Does our society accept or expect that content to be controlled, restricted, blocked, that has been proposed to be filtered here. (That being RC: Refused Classification)

Now we can argue and speculate until the cows come home about scope creep and legal interpretations, the public actually do accept and expect that the government enforces controls on stuff the classification board has classified as RC... They accept anbd expect that, and have done so in various formats of the classification/censorship board for decades.

The internet has not changed that requirement, it is not some magical medium that creates angels and higher life forms. It is a magnificent, flexible and very fast data transfer system built on standards of interconnectivity.

And we can do all sorts of things on this, all of which require levels of gov regulation if the industry does not self regulate.

And the industry has not nearly even approached an acceptable level of self regulation. And some of the folks objecting the loudest at Conroys filter plans are just those who often failed to exert acceptable levels of self-regulation that would have rendered the filter redundant...

There are a lot of people in Australia merps, not just filter protesters, and just because someone is not shouting from the barricades does not mean he is not being heard. Being twice as loud does not mean you need to be listened to the most, it just means they want to be listened to the most.

Australians speak loudly enough at elections, very loudly indeed. And their voice in late 2007 was to call this government to office. If censorship was unacceptable to the people merps, they would have spoken many times, as a majority, in many elections.

The majority, which is the basis of a democracy, votes at regulated elections wher all the voters are identified and it is ensured, as best we can, that it is one person one vote.

Unregulated online polls are very open to rigging, and have little or no relevance, as they can be easily multi or script voted... lol.
Maxxi
Dec 23, 2009 10:47 PM
Wow, that was one long post.... >;))

But, many good questions deserve the effort.

Mark D
Dec 29, 2009 12:55 PM
Great article Mark.
Maxxi
Jan 2, 2010 4:29 AM
Mr Newton, I believe the laws and Constitution of Australia disagree with you on this point:

""But they can't avoid the fact that the RC category is, by its very existence, a curtailment on free speech.""

I understand that you are an ardent reader on this subject, please refer me to the statutes or clauses in the Australian Constitution that define "free speech" and how the proposed federal legislation will definitively contravene these statutes and clauses?

Please also refer me to the Australian Constitution clauses that define "free speech" as an unlimited right with unlimited scope here in Australia.

I was not aware of that aspect and am most interested in your references.

Now, as for the RC itself, that is another interesting question Mr. Newton. I have another question for you, for which I would be most appreciative of an explanantion or your view on the matter:

Is the act of displaying, delivering or exhibiting Refused Classification material or content in Australia illegal?

Is the blocking of an attempt, premeditated, inadvertantly or otherwise, to address a URL with RC content, a method and/or means to prevent an illegal act?

Is it correct that the act of delivery, display or exhibition of RC content is illegal in Australia, irrespective of whether the content itself is illegal or not to possess?

If the answer to any of the three above questions is ""Yes"", which the legal definitions from the actual Australian legislation support BTW, then the proposed ISP filtering is Constituionally sound, is a substantiated law enforcement measure.

Australian law often defines and stipulates what can and cannot be done with an otherwise legal object or material Mr. Newton. For example, a knife:

Most knives are legal to possess and use.
Some knives are legal to own and use, however illegal to wear and display openly in public.
It is legal to own a knife, and use the knife, yet usually illegal to stab another person with it.

Cars: There are certain cars that are legal to own and view here in Australia, and to drive around your own property, yet you cannot drive them on public roads.

But the cars are legal to own...???

Ah yes Mr Newton, there are types of RC material that you may own and view (not child porn or child abuse materials), but you may not disseminate, display, exhibit or otherwise deliver any RC material here.

That is the law in Australia, laws so written to allow private individuals to retain private and legal RC materials and not intrude in that sphere, however to disallow any dissemination of those RC materials beyond that private shpere.

That then also restricts the import of such RC materials into Australia, as this would be delivery.

Thus, this statement is inaccurate Mr Newton:

""But they can't avoid the fact that the RC category is, by its very existence, a curtailment on free speech. It stands alone as a category of legal material which the Government has decided you aren't allowed to see.""

The government has not decided that you cannot see legal RC material, it has stipulated that you may not disseminate and RC material.

If you have some legal RC material of your own, then feel free to look at it, the Australian gov is not going to interfere. However, put it on a webpage for dissemination (the purpose of a webpage naturally)and you have broken Australian law.

If the legal RC material you have was EG downloaded from the internet, then you have obtained that material by illegal means, which is also in contravention of Australian law.

Therefore, the Australian government is duty bound to implement any means possible to prevent people in Australia using the internet to connect to URLs that contain RC content, as this would intitiate or casue an illegal act.

And that includes, I conclude, a mandatory ISP blacklist filtering of URLs with RC content.
Comments have been disabled for this article.
 
 
 
Top Stories
Windows 8: Under the hood
Part One of iTnews' enterprise guide to Windows 8.
 
iTnews on tour: The Executive Summit Series
Join us in Sydney and Melbourne to meet Australia's tech leaders.
 
Meet Westpac's new technology leaders
Engineering realigned under CTO.
 
Sign up to receive iTnews email bulletins
   FOLLOW US...

Latest VideosSee all videos »

Latest Comments
Polls
Was your 2012 IT budget...




   |   View results
Cut by less than ten percent?
  15%
 
Cut by more than ten percent?
  34%
 
Flat
  27%
 
Increased by less than ten percent?
  7%
 
Increased by more than ten percent?
  16%
TOTAL VOTES: 409

Vote
Will you still use DropBox and other cloud storage in the wake of the Megauploads saga?

   |   View results
Yes
  65%
 
No
  35%
TOTAL VOTES: 303

Vote