Day 16: iiNet authorised infringing acts, says film industry

 

First day of closing statements.

The film industry's barristers yesterday commenced closing statements in the Federal Court in Sydney as the copyright case against ISP iiNet entered its fourth and final week of hearings.

Lead barrister Tony Bannon read extensively from the Copyright Act and the judgement in Moorhouse and Angus & Robertson vs. the University of NSW - case law the industry has previously referenced in its attempts to establish that iiNet ‘authorised' copyright infringement on its network.

Bannon said that the industry would argue that iiNet's alleged failure to enforce the terms and conditions of its customer relationship agreement amounted to authorisation of the infringing acts.

"Even after a time iiNet accepts infringements occurred, they have continued to take the active step of connecting and reconnecting every day these customer accounts on which the infringing activity has occurred," Bannon told the court.

He argued that iiNet found itself "between a rock and a hard place" - imposing a term in customer agreements that its service not be used for copyright infringing purposes, in part to gain protection of the safe harbour provisions in the Copyright Act, but then not enforcing those terms.

"The failure to enforce [the customer relationship agreement] has the consequence that it authorises [the infringement]," Bannon argued.

"It plainly does not want to enforce [the terms]."

Bannon also argued that evidence provided by iiNet's chief regulatory officer Steve Dalby under cross-examination had proven the ISP did not have the Telecommunications Act in mind when it did not enforce the terms of its customer agreement.

iiNet has argued in the case that the Telecommunications Act prevented it from matching customer data from its systems to data of alleged copyright infringements.

The ISP's chief Michael Malone said in evidence last week that the provisions of the Telecommunications Act that enabled iiNet to use customer data for purposes such as billing did not extend to third parties outside of the specific agreement between iiNet and the customer.

Malone also said that merely passing on alleged infringement notifications to customers could be a breach of the Act.

But Bannon claimed yesterday that, aside from in the current case, the Telecommunications Act "had never been raised" by other industry players as a reason not to pass on notices of alleged infringement.

"The [email] communications with Telstra and other ISPs [surfaced through discovery] demonstrated that no other ISP thought there was any substance in the point," Bannon argued.

"The fact that Westnet was issuing these notices [to its customers] indicated there was no substance to that point.

"And there is no substance. It's an absurd conclusion to say customers don't authorise [the use of] that information for the purposes of enforcing an obligation they knowingly consent to [in the customer relationship agreement]."

Bannon argued iiNet could not rely on "their own deficiency in their own agreement" as a reason not to pass on notices of alleged copyright infringement.

"The respondent can't have it both ways. They can't say, ‘Look we have a [copyright] term of the agreement, give us credit for that', and then say ‘Because we don't have customer consent to use the information to send them a notice that they breached [the agreement] it's unenforceable," Bannon stated.

"We rely on them to enforce that [customer relationship agreement] provision but it's an unenforceable provision because of the Telecommunications Act, they say. There's no basis for that in the Telecommunications Act. Certainly I never thought there was."

Bannon also likened iiNet's suggestion that it would act on a court order to either pass on the notices or disconnect customers as inviting a situation where "one chases one's tail."

"A court order presupposes the finding of authorisation," Bannon argued.

"Their position of only acting on a court order of course presupposes their stern defence in these proceedings."

The case continues. You can follow the case in-full here. For a background on the case, click here.


Day 16: iiNet authorised infringing acts, says film industry
"So if AFACT wins will they be the only ones above the legal system? Or will I be able to send letters to ISP's and get people disconnected for kicks? Because that'd be pretty fkn sweet! It'd make ..."
By Dangolbery
 
 
 
Comments: 20
TruthSphere
Nov 10, 2009 11:05 AM
In hindsight the community should of rallied against AFACT sort of like how we did against the proposed broadband filter. The same human right privacy principles are at stake...
Digger11
Nov 10, 2009 11:24 AM
What "community" ????? All other credible ISP's were forwarding on AFACT notices to cusotmers and enforcing their CRA's.
It was iiNet who were attracting cusotmers of this ilk by allowing the downloading behaviour.

Let's all hope iiNet get what they deserve - otherwise we will be setting a very dangerous precedent where dodgy companies can get a competitive advantage over others by acting illegally or at least unethically in the market.
Blade17
Nov 10, 2009 12:24 PM
ALL other credible ISP's? Do you mean Telstra/Optus are not credible ISPs then? To my reading of the articles, only two other ISPs were mentioned as having passed on these ALLEGED infringement notices.
I think there's two main aspects to this legal action, and I don't think AFACT have clarified exactly what they would like IInet to do. 1. Pass on infringement notices. 2. Act on repeat offenders. If all AFACT wants Iinet to do is pass on the infringement notices, then fine. It doesn't necessarily mean anything if the notice is issued to the wrong person, because there's no ramifications.
If they want 2, disconnection of alleged repeat offenders, then that's a different story. It's been shown that the alleged infringers are often identified incorrectly. So in point 2, Iinet is quite correct in not passing on or acting on infringement notices.
Blade17
Nov 10, 2009 12:25 PM
because the said notices could be wrong
block
Nov 10, 2009 12:58 PM
And of course that's assuming that they use their ISP's email address. I don't and never have. Leaves me free to change ISP's.

I actually don't care if they forward me notices as
a) I'm not doing anything illegal
b) I don't check my ISP email

So for quite a few people, I doubt it would have made a difference if they were passing them on.

Yes - I'm an iiNet customer. No - I don't work for them. I'm with iiNet because they were cheaper and more reliable than the competition.
Digger11
Nov 10, 2009 1:17 PM
@block
Most law-abiding ISP's mail out the infringement notices to the physical address of the infringement. They are smart enough to realsie that ISP designated Email addresses are not always used.
As for iiNet being more reliable???? Most of their customers are just resold Telstra services so how can iiNet be more reliable than Telstra ????
If on a iiNet DSLAM, then they use the Telstra copper via ULL or LSS anyway - they do not own any lines themselves.
Their DSLAM's (hard wired and installed cheaply) and backhaul are certainly no more reliable than Telstra or any other ISP - where are you getting your reliability information from ??? Whirlpool I am guessing.
As for cheapness - Dodo and TPG are cheaper (but a lot crappier).
Blade17
Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM
@Digger11
Most law-abiding ISP's mail out the infringement notices? Where are you getting THAT information from? Can you please list exactly which ISPs mail out all the infringement notices, and your information source, so that I can inform myself also?
Scengy
Nov 10, 2009 1:59 PM
@Digger11

"Most law-abiding ISP's mail out the infringement notices to the physical address"

Can you point to a quantitative report that upholds this statement, or is it just a 'guess'?

"As for iiNet being more reliable???? Most of their customers are just resold Telstra services so how can iiNet be more reliable than Telstra???"

And then:
"Their [iiNet's] DSLAM's ... are certainly no more reliable than Telstra or any other ISP"

Followed by:
"Dodo and TPG are cheaper (but a lot crappier)"

Are you referring to Dodo and TPG's physical service or their customer service when you say "crappier"? If the first then your aforementioned comments seem to contradict your own position. If the second isn't their customer service level irrelevant to your points about their physical service?

Or are you trying to have your cake and eat it too? By implying one ISP's service is 'equal' to all others, except the others that are 'inferior'?

What it appears is that AFACT are not _only_ trying to get iiNet to comply with their desires of having notices sent to account holders (and whatever secondary actions would take place, such as account suspensions etc), they will also be seeking to eventually use this case to push through across-the-board (so _all_ ISP's) legislation (?) requiring sites to be blocked etc.

It's at that point that the "community" should be concerned, because just that one element is mandatory filtering by stealth and their desire would be to see if affect _all_ ISP's, not just iiNet. And we've yet to see what other "mechanisms" they might attempt to get bundled into these 'blocks'.

If they really want those sites "blocked" they should be backing and pushing hard the national content filtering proposal. But even then, would 'torrent' sites get blocked by that? My guess is no. So they're seeking back-doors to push through their own agendas.

Have AFACT ever proposed a technical solution to the copyright infringements? Have they engineered a way to identify the "thieves"? At this point an IP Address is not equal to an individual, an entity, but rather an end point to an internet service. But they can't sue a 'service' only an individual. They need to engineer a solution, not expect companies and individuals to ignore our burden of proof where an accused is Innocent until Proven Guilty.

But by all means, lets just go down the path of the over-tortious US society and start suing everyone left right and centre. I mean, who needs laws when we have money to pay lawyers to beat people into submission, right? *rolleyes*
djcassar
Nov 10, 2009 2:39 PM
@Digger11
Just because someone is cheaper and more reliable doesn't mean they are the cheapest or most reliable ISP out there. It just means in comparison he believed they provided the best price for the service he wanted.

The fact that Dodo and TPG are a lot cheaper and crappier just prooves Block's point. If their service was better he would have probably gone with them.

AFACT are putting pressure and trying to FORCE individual businesses to invest in particular areas of their business which will only affect AFACT's interests.

Ofcourse Iinet don't want to spend their money to make AFACT's members richer. AFACT themselves should invest their money in the ISP's to pay for this service because at the end of the day it's about the $$$ for both iinet and AFACT and has nothing to do with contract responsibilities.
Sams
Nov 10, 2009 2:48 PM
Digger11: "Most law-abiding ISP's mail out the infringement notices"

Digger11 is making up his own laws again? Or a 'law unto himself'? :-)
block
Nov 10, 2009 2:54 PM
I am a high bandwidth user, my work depends on it.

Dodo I would not go near with a 10ft pole. Issues take to long to resolve as their customer service is crap.

Telstra, customer service is crap and they are the most expensive.

iiNet was a good compromise and my personal preference. Just because you do not like iiNet does not mean that they don't provide great customer service. When I moved back from Melbourne, iiNet went out of their way to get me an ADSL port that Telstra could not provide. It was not an exchange that iiNet had their own DSLAM's in. Tell me how that works. iiNet could find me a Telstra port and Telstra could not.
block
Nov 10, 2009 2:56 PM
Not to mention they were pretty much the first to rollout ADSL2 and ADSL2+ as well as offering VOIP and Naked DSL.

Perhaps that may have something to do with their loyal clients... as well as their expanding customer base.
Private Citizen
Nov 10, 2009 3:03 PM
This case will have wide reaching consequences. AFACT are asking the courts for blanket authority to demand action from a delivery vendor to stop AFACT commercial losses from another party on the basis of unproven allegations, without the benefit of due process. e.g. court order. Normally when a party causes you damage you are supposed to target the offending party, in the event of computer systems you place a court order asking for user information. AFACT are trying to bypass due process, trying to get the delivery vendor take the heat for failing to observe due process (eg. right of appeal, habeus corpus, etc.).
If joe average used Australia Post to send pirated materials AFACT would not target Australia Post. Australia Post would not disconnect the postal customer nor would it harass the customer on behalf of AFACT. Nor would it open every piece of mail just in case unlawful actions were occurring not without a court order or police action. AFACT have used a photocopying precendent IINET need to reduce it to the ridiculous, otherwise couriers and posthandlers could be included in AFACT argument.
Nightfire
Nov 10, 2009 6:07 PM
@Digger11
"It was iiNet who were attracting cusotmers of this ilk by allowing the downloading behaviour."
Actually it is Telstra that have created the environment of metered downloads and associated behavior. I download quite a bit of legal material and have a great need for a large download limit. I'm a great fan of Steam digital software delivery and WoW. Assuming that if you download a large amount equates to infringing behavior is simplistic, displays a vast misunderstanding of how the internet functions and creates a generalized and false perception of this behavior designed to do nothing more than authorize actions that have no oversight, appeal or repercussions if AFACT get it wrong. Accuse first, ask questions later (if you can afford a good lawyer!).

“Most law-abiding ISP's mail out the infringement notices to the physical address of the infringement.”
The implication here is that if an ISP hasn’t been forwarding these on then they are not law-abiding. iiNet have not been found guilty of anything and even more so, this is not a criminal proceeding. Your inference is more FUD! (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt)

“As for iiNet being more reliable???? Most of their customers are just resold Telstra services so how can iiNet be more reliable than Telstra ????”
Ummm, and you’re getting your information here from where? I believe the only Telstra resold products iiNet make available are ADSL1 plans and even then mainly only in places where they are unable to offer ADSL2/2+ due to Telstra limitations (poor lines, full exchanges, RIMs). Your assertion assumes a level of knowledge of their numbers that you could only know as an iiNet employee with direct access to customer records. Are you an iiNet employee?

“If on a iiNet DSLAM, then they use the Telstra copper via ULL or LSS anyway - they do not own any lines themselves.”
Hate to say it but ALL ISPs do! There is no way around it thanks to the way our telecommunications industry evolved. This has nothing to do with your argument however and serves only to try and create a straw man for later use.

“Their DSLAM's (hard wired and installed cheaply) and backhaul are certainly no more reliable than Telstra or any other ISP - where are you getting your reliability information from ??? Whirlpool I am guessing.”
Again, to know the figures on their reliability, uptime, backhaul performance you can only be either making general assumptions from what you know of the hardware they (and most ISP’s) use for ADSL 2/2+ (which conflicts with your earlier resale of Telstra products assertion) or you are a disgruntled iiNet employee. Again I put to you, are you an employee of iiNet?

“Let's all hope iiNet get what they deserve - otherwise we will be setting a very dangerous precedent where dodgy companies can get a competitive advantage over others by acting illegally or at least unethically in the market.”
Actually AFACT would be setting the dangerous precedent here! They are saying that their mere allegation of infringement occurring is enough to force a third party to terminate a contract. That their allegation is tantamount to guilt and then requires proof of innocence. There is no positive identification of an offender. There is no opportunity for defense or appeal.

Furthermore iiNet is a licensed telecommunications carrier. Why have AFACT not demanded Telstra put monitoring devices in all exchanges?
iiNet don’t monitor your connections for the same reason Telstra don’t monitor your phone calls, because it is illegal! (Go ask Telstra for a copy of someone else's phone bill and see what they tell you!) If they cannot do that, how are they supposed to know when an “infringement” is occurring and if it is or isn’t authorized? Law enforcement need a warrant to listen in on a phone conversation, they need one to gain personal information from iiNet. AFACT is not above the law and they are not above law enforcement. They have proven they cannot identify an offender, only an IP address. They wish to hold an account holder liable for acts they may not be aware of or, even if they are, may be (are likely to be) unable to prevent through lack of technical expertise.
All of AFACT’s case law revolves around physical locations, identifiable offenders and obvious infringements. Their entire case demonstrates that they have no concept of what they are dealing with or asking for. All they ultimately want is someone else to do their job, enforce their copyrights! They have a mechanism to do this, they just want someone else to do the work for them.

All of your posts demonstrate a clear bias for AFACT without regard to the facts. your statements seem on par with others such as all bittorrent traffic is copyright infringement (to bad for WoW and Steam users), all download quota's are used for copyright infringement (again the game industry has been using digital delivery for years now) and the world is required to serve their demands. (Hate to say it but the gaming industry was at last count 3x the size of the movie industry).

You're not John Linton are you? That would make SOOO much sense!
Mitch
Nov 10, 2009 7:35 PM
Digger11 is just a faceless troll best to ignore it.
Mitch
Nov 10, 2009 7:35 PM
Digger11 is just a faceless troll best to ignore it.
Sams
Nov 10, 2009 8:09 PM
Nightfire: "Again I put to you, are you [Digger] an employee of iiNet?"

An ex-employee I'd wager.
TruthSphere
Nov 10, 2009 8:10 PM
We should ignore him, he's making it look like their is some sort of community AFACT support when in reality it's just him...
Johnny
Nov 10, 2009 9:51 PM
Since AFACT doesn't like getting court orders (which they must get by the way - to prove anything happened).

This means they would prefer if Australia were a totalitarian state.

I say this because iinet does not have to disconnect a customer on the basis of a complaint which has absolutely no proof that the customer has breached any copyright laws. (before you respond i'll quickly rebut any response you may have, innocent until PROVEN guilty, and that happens in a court of law).

Thanks.

Dangolbery
Nov 11, 2009 2:56 PM
So if AFACT wins will they be the only ones above the legal system? Or will I be able to send letters to ISP's and get people disconnected for kicks? Because that'd be pretty fkn sweet! It'd make me feel like a big man... HOCKEY DAD! :D
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