Day 13: iiNet CEO says BitTorrent dominates traffic

By Ry Crozier on Nov 4, 2009 2:00 PM
Filed under Telco/ISP

Plaintiff alleges link to ISP's profitability.

The chief executive officer defending an online copyright case has had alleged statements he made about the nature and quantum of online traffic that passes over his ISP's network used against him in the Federal Court.

iiNet chief executive officer Michael Malone agreed with plaintiff barrister for the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft Tony Bannon that he would "expect or guess that half or more than half of traffic by volume across his company's network is BitTorrent traffic".

BitTorrent is a technology that allows online users to share parts of a film or song, for instance, over the internet. The pieces are stitched together on the user's PC to form a whole file for playback. The federation brought the test case against No. 3 Australian ISP, iiNet, alleging its networks were used for widespread distribution of illicit material and that the provider did too little to stop alleged infringers who were its customers.

As the federation's case entered a third straight day of Malone's cross-examination Bannon surfaced statements the iiNet founder made to journalists and in the Whirlpool broadband forum over the years.

They included references to peer-to-peer traffic volumes and types of traffic traversing either iiNet's network or the internet.

"Your view is certainly that BitTorrent is and has been consistently used on your company's system for the downloading of compressed digital copies of TV shows and Hollywood movies?" Bannon asked, referring to comments Malone allegedly made to an Australian Financial Review journalist three years ago.

"Last time I tried to estimate a percentage I got smacked around by you for it," Malone said.

That was a reference to a dressing-down Malone received from Bannon on the first day of his cross-examination after Malone estimated how many infringement notifications ISP Westnet passed to its customers.

"Don't be intimidated by past experiences," Bannon said. "Dealing with your state of mind, at the very least a substantial percentage or proportion of the BitTorrent traffic on your network, as with BitTorrent on any network worldwide, has involved the downloading of TV shows and Hollwood movies?"

"Yes," Malone said.

"You'd thought it quite likely, had you not, that the proportion might be very high?"

Malone said "I shudder to make a percentage estimate" to which Bannon replied: "Don't be afraid".

"Yes it would be high but I don't know if I could say very high. There have been more and more legitimate uses of BitTorrent over the years," Malone said.

"I'm asking whether you'd agree with me that your state of mind over the last couple of years is that the proportion of such traffic on your network, BitTorrent traffic, of films and TV shows being unauthorised copies being downloaded, that proportion is quite high?"

"Yes," Malone agreed.

"Would you expect that use of the BitTorrent application is likely to involve unauthorised copies of films and television shows?"

"I think on a customer-by-customer basis that's difficult to assert," Malone said.

"But by volume you agree with me?"

"Yes."

"And you think it likely that a large volume of bandwidth used by your customers as a group consists of unauthorised downloading of the applicant's films and TV shows?"

"A significant percentage, yes," Malone conceded.

Malone agreed with Bannon that iiNet would "expect or guess that half or more than half of traffic by volume across [Malone's] company's network is BitTorrent traffic".

"Or [on] any network," Malone said.

"Half of traffic - that's an enormous amount of bandwidth quota isn't it?" Bannon said.

"Yes," Malone said.

"That represents a lot of demand for bandwidth quota doesn't it?"

"Yes."

Bannon accused iiNet of wanting to attract heavy-bandwidth users to increase its profits.

"I would prefer [those customers] go to someone else and let someone else be sued," Malone said.

"And you're happy to take their money in the meantime?" Bannon asked.

"Yes."

The case continues. You can follow the case in-full here. For a background on the case, click here.

Day 13: iiNet CEO says BitTorrent dominates traffic

16 comments in this discussion

"@TruthSphere @wolfpac ...."the Seven Network's socialist agenda"... Please check your understanding of socialism, IMHO P2P follows the socialist model, Seven follows the capitalistic model. From ..."

By willeycoyotee

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Comments: 16

Digger11 Nov 4, 2009 5:53 PM	"I would prefer [those customers] go to someone else and let someone else be sued," Malone said." That is pricless. He built his business by attracting young kiddies who wanted to D/L lots of stuff and now regrets it. Pity is that he has become a multi-millionaire by doing it. and I always thought that the good guys win in the long-run..........
jonnara Nov 4, 2009 6:23 PM	@Digger11 Get your head out of the sand mate. The content industry has been robbing artist and consumers blind for so long that they can afford to throw billions of dollars to sue people and lobby governments world wide for law changes that com-from to there idea of finding people guilty before due process. These people have so much money from ripping off artist and consumers that they can pay to make laws.
TruthSphere Nov 4, 2009 6:31 PM	Digger11 just posts on every AFACT/IINET article trying to make it look like someone is on AFACT's side, obviously an associate of them. Cause the truth is 99.99% of people with even half knowledge on the debate are supporting IINET. So Digger11 stop spamming your crap, and stop supporintg AFACT, Village Roadshow, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros Entertainment, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, Disney Enterprises, Inc. and the Seven Network's socialist agenda.
jonnara Nov 4, 2009 6:32 PM	PS- forgot to add that not only IInet but the whole world's Internet traffic predominately BitTorrent. So what next AFACT? take the Internets to court?
kevin Nov 4, 2009 6:35 PM	Digger11, you work for AFACT, so no body listening to you. Actually we disregard your comments, not because you work for AFACT, but your knowledge of what is legal and illegal download are very limited.
sputnik Nov 4, 2009 7:41 PM	I personally think that it's too late for the studios. I hope they go bust. "Oh noes we'll have no media then!" Crap, people will still produce news, like the BBC and other publicly funded entities. With the tech we have these days, people are producing films, that rake in big audiences, produced for the cost of a handy cam and some peoples time. Sorry big studios, get with the internet and future of media, or go the way of the Dodo. What if you win the court case, and iiNet or whomever starts kicking users that are caught downloading movies? Do you really think people will stop downloading movies because of that? If so, you're in the same loony bin as people who think an internet filter will stop people viewing porn. Thankyou.
AntiHack Nov 5, 2009 12:22 AM	Digger11 -- good on ya mate -- stand up against these internet thieves (kevin, sputnik, jonnara and Truthsphere). Michael Malone is basically an accessory to theft -- the theft of copyright material that the above internet thieves want to watch or use for free. Shame on you thieves! STOP ILLEGALLY DOWNLOADING MATERIAL -- IT'S WRONG! If IINET/any ISP were specifically told that a user is downloading pirated material, they should immediately ban that user and close his account. END OF STORY. The argument that its not their responsibility is just pure rubbish - even more so when they have been advised of illegal downloading. Hopefully Malone/IINET loses the case and this Grand Thief loses his multi-millions that he has illegally obtained!! I'm hoping...
wolfpac Nov 5, 2009 12:27 AM	did you know that the internet turns 40 years old and that it is FREE system and ONLY the ISP's make the money so you ask what does that have to do about is story.....simple 1) I watch anime w/sub title...the ones i watch are free for now when one of these morons Village Roadshow, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros Entertainment, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, Disney Enterprises, Inc. and the Seven Network's socialist agenda will copy right them and say we onw this movie so now start paying or we sue and yes there are REAl people that make movies,songs,ect but when you or the company makes you pay through the nose just becouse they can what do you THINK will happen if you make things cheaper then maybe you wont need to sue isp's or bit torren or lime wire,youtube,veoh.com imesh,or any other p2p software company.......but wait your to stupid to think that all yous want is this $$$$$$$$$$$$ ...............so i say this ( fvcken kick there arse iinet and win for the everyday person :D
Sams Nov 5, 2009 12:31 AM	Antihack (a.k.a. Digger11 or his mum): "If IINET/any ISP were specifically told that a user is downloading pirated material, they should immediately ban that user and close his account." Riiiight. So I just told your ISP that you are downloading pirated material ...
wolfpac Nov 5, 2009 12:38 AM	I have a simpler plan take away the internet from the people and give it back the ithe miltry only since it WAS made for them only.....oh Antihack get a life cause every and i do mean EVERYBODY D/Lone form or anther songs YOU just DONT know it.mp3 for mobiles is one of them since you need to d/l a sample and if you LOOK at the law it stats NO d/l OF ANYKIND is aloud..if your going to bag something learn your damb history .or get lost.:D and damning people for d/l something is a breach of the private laws cause your NOT aloud to spy aka look at what the person is d/l that is a breach in the law it self and the person that is paying for a service can then sue for invation of pritace? and that my friend would CLOSE any ISP becouse people would not trust any isp if they knew that they SPYED on everything they do onlilne I would sue the living shit out any ISP that spyed on me hell if i d/l a song or movie .
wolfpac Nov 5, 2009 12:50 AM	I have just thought of the best thing FOR everybody the internet and afact usfact and what other fact there is why NOT GIVE 20% from all internet users account(you pay 89.95)per month they (other company)get 20% dont care how it is done simple yes then anybody can d/l anything any somg any movie and not be sued yes ? so 89.95 the isp would get to keep 69.95 or there abouts that is a sample only to by the way.
Kookedgoose Nov 5, 2009 1:48 AM	Don't let Digger11 confuse you. Mark "Digger" Dignam owned Omen, a local Perth ISP that sold out to iiNet back at the end of 1999. He worked at iiNet for a while i believe afterwards before leaving. It's clear from the tone in his posts that he has a fair amount of malice directed towards Michael Malone and iiNet in general. Clearly a man with a chip on his shoulder and spare time on his hands, who considers himself one of the 'good guys'.
icologi Nov 5, 2009 3:02 AM	I'm an Aussie in the USA - been over here for four months - and there are a few key things I've noticed about the internet industry here, and how it compares to Australia, that are worth noting: i. here, everyone gets true unlimited broadband, and it costs significantly less than in Australia (US$52.95 per month for downloads up to 16Mbps, uploads up to 2Mbps, no limits, no throttling) ii. access to free on demand movies and tv shows via websites such as www.hulu.com & the network websites as well (and i suspect that a significant volume of bit torrent traffic relates to tv episodes, although i can't prove it) iii. businesses like www.netflix.com provide unlimited dvd rentals, either delivered to your door OR via the web (remember unlimited broadband?) for $US8.99 per month Clearly I'm not ignorant to mitigating factors such as economies of scale generated through significant purchasing power, however, Australia's approach to the internet is fundamentally retarded, and urgently in need of an upgrade. Would this stop the flow of 'pirated' materials? Probably not - in fact, in the short term, it would probably increase the flow. But just like prohibition did little to quell the demand for alcohol - and the lifting of it resulted in a significant revenue stream for all concerned - more consistent, faster, cheaper and easier access to the net must eventually result in a significantly reduced level of 'piracy' and would open up more innovation in types and volumes of content. Piracy is a direct result of defacto prohibition occurring through Australia's backward implementation of an effective national telecommunications (broadband and 3G) network that meets even the most basic standards of a so-called developed nation (how the hell are we supposed to compete in a global digital economy with the current setup?) Attacking the symptoms of a dysfunctional system is not only abysmally stupid, it is an horrendous waste of money. Nobody would be so daft as to suggest blowing up the sun because people keep getting skin cancer, would they?
allurbasesbelong2us Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM	"i. here, everyone gets true unlimited broadband, and it costs significantly less than in Australia (US$52.95 per month for downloads up to 16Mbps, uploads up to 2Mbps, no limits, no throttling)" blah blah blah I get tired of hearing this same rubbish over and over. Take a look at a map sometime, where Australia is located, and how many people there are here. If you want to go and lay a few submarine cables off your own back, go for it. Otherwise everyone should pull their head out of American TV for long enough to look at a map and remember where they are - Australia. 15,000km submarine cable's aren't cheap, and Australia has to pay for that ourselves because no one wants to connect to Australia, we connect to everyone else.
TruthSphere Nov 5, 2009 8:50 PM	@AntiHack How dare you call me a thief. What proof have you got on me? Are you working for AFACT and helping them illegally stalk people's connections? Frig we ought to set up our own poisoned torrents to trap these AFACT stalkers and sue them for invasion of privacy. If I sat outside of someone's window and logged every time they went to their letter box i'd be friggen arrested. [Edit- threat deleted- Mod] Edited by rycrozier: 5/11/2009 10:44:15 PM
willeycoyotee Dec 4, 2009 1:31 PM	@TruthSphere @wolfpac ...."the Seven Network's socialist agenda"... Please check your understanding of socialism, IMHO P2P follows the socialist model, Seven follows the capitalistic model. From wiki: "Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals".... "Capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation".....