Day Eight: AFACT solicitor grilled on ISP disconnections

 

Dynamic IP addresses allegedly changed without user knowledge.

The film industry's solicitor came under sustained pressure from ISP iiNet's senior counsel to admit the number of individual sessions - and therefore infringements - recorded in spreadsheets he prepared were inflated by a technical issue.

Cross-examination of Michael Williams, a partner at law firm Gilbert + Tobin and the film industry's solicitor in the case, by iiNet's senior counsel Richard Lancaster resumed today in the Federal Court in Sydney.

At the heart of the cross-examination was the accuracy of a spreadsheet, prepared by Williams, that attempted to match alleged infringement data from DtecNet's investigation to IP address log files for a sample of 20 iiNet customer accounts.

The data was obtained from iiNet under court order dated 15 June 2009. It allegedly included a column of reasons outlining the reason the 20 users' internet connections were disconnected from a session over the sample period.

Definitions for the various disconnection reasons were allegedly contained in an iiNet "facilitator's guide" included in a bundle of documents mailed to Williams by iiNet's solicitors Herbertgeer in mid-February of this year.

The reasons allegedly included "port error", described by Lancaster SC as "a loss of [internet] connection caused by something other than the user" requesting it.

Lancaster alleged that the records of at least one iiNet customer in the sample of 20 showed that there was "no user [initiated] disconnection" request received over a period of almost a month.

"I can see that as recorded in the ISP log file or log history that during that duration that user is not recorded as having requested a disconnection by clicking [to disconnect]," Williams said under cross-examination.

"As to in what circumstances their connection was lost is not clear to me."

Lancaster put it to Williams that if disconnections were not the result of a specific request by the user, they could be the result of technical errors at the ISP level that were unseen by the user.

These technical disconnections were resolved with an automatic reconnection of the user to the internet by the ISP, resulting in the allocation of a new dynamic IP address from the iiNet range, Lancaster alleged.

But each new dynamic IP address that was allocated allegedly resulted in a separate infringement recorded by the film industry.

Lancaster put it to Williams that it was possible that what was recorded by the film industry as a "series of sessions appeared to the user to be one single session".

"If it's the case in an ordinary ISP that disconnections can happen automatically at the ISP level without the user being aware of it, and that would result in different IP addresses being allocated on each re-connection, and that would explain why in this series of sessions there were multiple IP addresses?" Lancaster alleged.

"That's one explanation," Williams responded.

"If that's the case and this series of sessions reflect in truth only one session from the user's perspective, and with the explanation for different IP addresses and user connections at the ISP level, you'd need to put forward a different number of infringements wouldn't you?" Lancaster pressed, drawing an objection from the film industry's barrister.

Lancaster pressed on: "You appreciate don't you Mr Williams what I'm putting to you about the series of sessions reveals whether or not this is a series of sessions or on the other hand a single connection by the user that was disconnected and reconnected for various technical reasons?"

"I object to the wording of the question," Williams responded.

"I would treat those as a series of sessions each with a different IP address."

Pressed further, Williams said the film industry was "simply attempting to match the best we can" the investigative data supplied by DtecNet to the iiNet sample of accounts.

Today's proceedings related to a section of iiNet's defence that contended the number of infringements outlined by the film industry on day one was overstated.

The case was adjourned until November 2.


Day Eight: AFACT solicitor grilled on ISP disconnections
"You are downloading "copyright material" right now - see the copyright notice at the bottom of this page. You don't know what you are talking about."
By Sams
 
 
 
Comments: 9
Digger11
Oct 15, 2009 3:05 PM
Very strange lien of questioning by iiNet. To try and prove that they didn't have that many customers downloading copyright material is a bit weird.
Just go to Whirlpool or other Internet Forums and plenty of their customers admit guilt.
The case is only about bittorrent as well - I am sure iiNet downloaders used plenty of other means (I heard that Newzgroups is very popular for this type of activity .......).
Digger11
Oct 15, 2009 3:10 PM
Also, If iiNet was regularly disconnecting customers and issuing new IP addresses, then the kiddies on Whirlpool would be up in arms and posting endlessly about technical difficulties - I don't see any of these posts ???

But then, if you post something negative on Whirlpool about iiNet or Internode, it gets very quickly deleted. Post too many times and u get banned (it happened to me and I only posted questions about iiNets balance sheet and the high share price ???).
Post something negative about the Big T and it becomes a headline on Whirlpool.
Very very strange.
Shiv
Oct 15, 2009 4:02 PM
@ Digger I think that what they are trying to prove is that the claims by AFACT are vastly over exagerated as in the instance of 1 user downloading 1 file via bit torrent, every time they got disconnected and then reconnected, AFACT was counting it as a separate infringment and thus generating huge numbers against a small population that could then be extrapolated to a nummber of staggering proportions. All the way along they have been trying to prove that AFACT's claims are exaggerated, this is just more of this.

I suspect the additional point to this is that if the 3 strikes and your banned process that AFACT wants comes into place, then if you are downloading the one file but change dynamic IP's 3 times, then you could be automatically banned, even before you had a chance to repent.

Shiv
Ronin8317
Oct 15, 2009 4:17 PM
I'm with IiNet, and it is pretty normal to be assigned a new IP even without disconnecting. For example, in the month of September, I have been assigned over 150 different IP addresses. You don't read much about it on Whirlpool forums because it has very little impact on internet performance.
Sams
Oct 15, 2009 5:32 PM
Digger11: "To try and prove that they didn't have that many customers downloading copyright material is a bit weird."

Kuh, yeah, why on Earth would they want to try to defend themselves in court? :-)
Mordd
Oct 15, 2009 6:13 PM
I'm with iiNet, and unless you are on a business plan you get a dynamic IP like the majority of ISP's do (very very few will give you static without paying big $$ for it).

Therefore Digger11 iiNet can change my IP address anytime they like and its completely within the TOS they and I agreed to when i signed up my account with them. There is no reason for it to cause technical issues that are visible to the end user, andShiv makes an excellent point, someone could be banned under 3 strikes rule for what is a single session to the customer but involves 4 dynamic IP's assigned over a period of say 24-48hrs to the customer automatically.

Also, IRC file sharing ftw, old school is always the best :P
Tailgator
Oct 15, 2009 9:18 PM
Digger11 seems more concerned about having a dig at Whirlpool than iiNet case.
As for 'To try and prove that they didn't have that many customers downloading copyright material is a bit weird.'
Nothing weird in that at all. Step one - cast doubt on and discredit the opponents facts .... Check
Digger11
Oct 16, 2009 8:36 AM
@Tailgator - Yes, I do not like Whirlpool whatsoever. However, would any reasonable man in the ISP industry ever honestly not think that many,many iiNet users are downloading copyright material ??? It surely is not the point of the case.
Changing IP addresses is a technicality - many many iiNet users still I reckon.
20gb of downloads on Linux Distro's ??? Funniest thing I have heard since Summer Heights High.
Sams
Oct 16, 2009 9:03 AM
You are downloading "copyright material" right now - see the copyright notice at the bottom of this page. You don't know what you are talking about.
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