Opinion: Conroy is right to question Google's privacy record

 

Google gives the US Government access to Gmail, says iTnews' editor.

Google should not expect to be beyond international criticism while it offers the US Government access to its data on request but lambasts other governments for interfering with the rights of online users.

It has been telling to watch some of our peers in the press work the controversy over Senator Conroy's criticism of Google's privacy record on ABC radio last week as he was questioned on his internet filtering policy.

The headlines only illustrated the ferocity of opposition to Conroy's nanny-state filter and just how well marketed Google's "do no evil" mantra is. Scribes just couldn't believe a minister would have the nerve to question Google.

Like or loathe his policy, the Senator has grounds to point out the contradiction Google is in. The search company condemns the Chinese Government for censoring its results and Australia for planning to do the same while it breaks faith with its users around the world by sharing their data with the US Government.

The Patriot Act introduced by President Bush - which allows US authorities to search telecommunications and email communications to fight the 'war on terror' - was not designed by Google. But complying with it places the company in an awkward position.

Google chief executive officer Eric Schmidt admitted the company is at times compelled to share data with the US Government.

Representatives from Google Australia have since confirmed the company's policy of complying with these United States government regulations.

"We're committed to protecting user privacy when faced with law enforcement requests, and have a track record of advocating on behalf of users in the face of such requests," the company told iTnews in a statement. "We scrutinise each one to ensure that it adheres to both the letter and the spirit of the law before complying, and do our best to notify the subject named in any such requests to give them the opportunity to object.

"Like all law-abiding companies, we comply with U.S. laws and legal processes."

Google is  thus in a contradictory position to comment on government interference with a citizen's data. It says, like the government, that it only wants to interfere with a customer's data in the case of suspected child porn - which sounds straight out of the Minister's songbook. 

At least Australians have always known where we stand with Senator Conroy and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Whether we like it or not, both of our major political parties have promised their stakeholders an internet filter for some time. And Senator Conroy always has the advantage of leaning back on the fact that the ALP - at a high level - made its "cyber-safety" agenda public before it was elected to government.

I don't expect opponents of the filter are going to let Senator Conroy steamroll filtering legislation through Parliament without a very good and worthy fight. But I'd suggest activists be wary of their allies.

After all, as Australian citizens we can always vote the Rudd Government out if it displeases us.

We have far less power over Google.

Editor's note - This story previously referred to an extract by a local Google engineer recorded at a conference in New Zealand. Google has since made an official response to the issue (as stated in the copy above) conceding that it does indeed provide access to the US Government upon request and the story has been amended with the official response.


Opinion: Conroy is right to question Google's privacy record
"Really I wounder if Google stops the "Patriot Act" at that nations boarders. People at the top of their world believe in divine right, Kings, Dictators, Corporate Barons, Presidents and in this ..."
By Tom Brown
 
 
 
Comments: 19
Ace
Apr 7, 2010 10:57 AM
I don't believe Googles privacy record bares any relevance on Australia's internet filter whatsoever. It some kind of distraction ploy by Conroy.

I get to choose whether I use Google or not. And in fact, I choose to use only their search engine. Conroy doesn't appear to be offering any choice.
BrettWinterford
Apr 7, 2010 11:26 AM
@ Ace - I agree, it's a distraction. And it was the biggest story of last week on many news sites. I believe journalists made it so, not the Minister, because they couldn't believe he would dare criticise Google.

And yes, we do have a choice re: using Google services. Would the prospect of your data being shared with a Government compel you to use alternatives?
Ace
Apr 7, 2010 12:36 PM
Possibly. If I was happy for Google or anyone else to host my data for free, then I would be expecting that anyone would be able to gain access to and view that data at some point. To me that's part of the parcel. If I want to keep something private, I'm not going to upload it to Google or any other similar site. The internet is not a great place for privacy.

This is why the scariest thing to do on the internet, is purchase something. You have to put faith in the recipient of your details, the certificates and SSL. Even reputable retailers have been known to accidentally leak personal details and credit card numbers of their customers. At least credit card damage is limited through bank insurance etc. Personal detail leakage can be far worse, and you don't have to see too many identity theft victim stories to get a bit worried.
Sams
Apr 7, 2010 2:27 PM
"Conroy is right to question Google's privacy record"

No he wasn't - not in that context. Privacy and censorship are two completely separate issues. It's like saying you shouldn't comment on child abuse issues because you robbed a bank. Senseless.
Rhino
Apr 7, 2010 2:42 PM
Sorry Brett, but:_
1) "Google is in a contradictory position to comment on government interference with a citizen's data. It says, like the government, that it only wants to interfere with a customer's data in the case of suspected child porn - which sounds straight out of the Minister's songbook." No it doesn't. As Sams has noted, there is a big difference between censorship and privacy.

2) "have always known where we stand with Senator Conroy and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd" No we haven't. They got elected on an Opt-in filter, which once they were in power quickly changed to mandatory. The spin by Stephen leaves me no doubt we never truly know where we are with him, or his boss.

We do have a choice as previously noted, but whether we use Google, Bing, Yahoo or one of the many other search engines, they may all have to comply with the same laws. The only difference is that Google is the more vocal.
anonymous
Apr 7, 2010 3:43 PM

Further to @Rhino 1), the minister does not need secret government censorship to control child porn. It is already completely illegal, and what's more it always has been.

If he talked to anybody other than his cosy chats with the ACL, he would find this out. Unless he knows already and is trying to be misleading, of course.
BrettWinterford
Apr 7, 2010 3:49 PM
@ Sams, @ Rhino - Point taken re: the difference between censorship and privacy.

And I'll be damned if you're not also right on the twists and turns of the filter from the election til now.
Here's the Beazley press release from back before the election (archived) - http://bit.ly/7KRVVG - and you're right, there was an opt-in.

Conroy's pre-election policy press release has meanwhile disappeared from the ALP site (dropped link at http://www.alp.org.au/download/now/labors_plan_for_cyber_safety.pdf) - but a mirror of that document (http://bit.ly/dpDSfQ) doesn't mention opt-in or opt-out.

I am nonetheless concerned about the the Patriot Act and Google. I take your point that I too have been distracted from the issues at hand re: filtering.

Edited by brettwinterford: 7/4/2010 11:53:49 PM
anonymous
Apr 7, 2010 5:09 PM

@Brett, don't you mean "And I'll be damned if you're NOT also right..." ??
;-)

Mordd
Apr 7, 2010 8:16 PM
This is why I don't use gmail, google apps or Chrome though, I don't agree with the Patriot Act and choose not to use online software that is owned by companies bound by the Patriot Act if I can avoid it.
BrettWinterford
Apr 7, 2010 11:52 PM
@ anonymous - I'm having one of those days...
dkmerriman@gmail.com
Apr 8, 2010 3:48 AM
Surely you understand the difference between being obliged to comply with a policy imposed from without, and being the originator of said policy. This article is disingenuous, at best. Also, a Google/gmail user has the option of using a different service if they so choose; the internet filtering proposed by the Senator leaves his victims no alternative.
cmasiero
Apr 8, 2010 3:55 AM
Don't banks also give their data to law enforcement agencies?

Don't Google also give their data to Australian law enforcement agencies?

Whats all the stress here?
Sams
Apr 8, 2010 9:41 AM
OTOH, I have clients that won't use Google applications because of privacy issues. I also know of related organisations that won't use anything hosted on US-based servers becuase to those US laws. Unfortunately, that counts us out. Catch 22 - we use US servers to save money for our non-profit clients, but some won't use US services. Why does hosting in Oz need to be so expensive in comparison (oh, I know, Telstra.. ..). Anyone know of good, cheap hosting in Oz with lots of bandwidth?
btone
Apr 8, 2010 11:49 AM
@ BrettWinterford @ anonymous - I'm having one of those days...

How refreshing to have a well argued discussion, an acknowledgement of some chnged positions and general agreement among folks aware of the issues and the various takes on them.

A trifle different from a certain minister's "We are consulting but I make no apology for...blah, blah, blah..."
djm
Apr 8, 2010 1:10 PM
"After all, as Australian citizens we can always vote the Rudd Government out if it displeases us. We have far less power over Google."

Actually, I think you have far more power over Google - you can simply choose to not use them at any time. I wish I could simply choose not to use Conroy's anti-RC filter if it gets up.
Johnny
Apr 12, 2010 10:13 AM
So does anybody realise what would happen to google if they didnt comply with the US 'patriot act'.

Just my opinion but the USA has no right to call anybody else TERRORISTS, hypocritical of them i say.

Rhino
Apr 12, 2010 12:03 PM
@btone..."A trifle different from a certain minister's "We are consulting but I make no apology for...blah, blah, blah..."

And this is frightening the hell out of me. You, me, everyone who provides an opinion on this (and other) web sites, the Australian people are the major stakeholders in this, not some minority lobby group. Yet we are the ones being ignored.
bear1966
Apr 15, 2010 12:12 AM
conroy needs to keep his yap shut this is the man who calls u a pedophile for daring to question his internet filter one that has been proven does not work even so he admitted it wont work yet he calls u a pedophile if u question the fact it doesnt work
Tom Brown
Apr 21, 2010 3:16 PM
Really I wounder if Google stops the "Patriot Act" at that nations boarders.
People at the top of their world believe in divine right, Kings, Dictators, Corporate Barons, Presidents and in this case that of supremacy of the US by literally its people, I don't think Conroy sees himself that way.
And the statements of filtering imply general filtering of all websites on the net which is rubbish, the internet regulators(in the US)already manage the net and block unwanted sites and I dare say for the better, and they owe no explanation nor is any required.
We all have our slant on things but all the misdirection provided by so many commenters only display the degree of self interested ignorance albeit for a political predilection.
Regards
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