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Most people in Australia Laugh at the results from whirlpool, because that site is used mostly by Anti Telstra users who admit they hate telstra and use propaganda.
Hence the Voting on G9 who was knock back by the ACCC, sorry but this reporting is quite silly
So i thought Itnews would find a better resource to report, then using a Anti Telstra site propaganda
Posted by
Stewart,
Mar 3, 2008 6:05 PM
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Is it much better than taking results from a propaganda site like Now We Are Talking? Give me a break! WP has a lot of pro telstra people on there as well. And maybe, just maybe it is because most ppl now believe that having Telstra control broadband infrastructure would be a bad thing..
Posted by
Chris,
Mar 3, 2008 6:21 PM
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So Stewart, why would there be a site dedicated to "Anti Telstra" with over 200,000 registered users if Telstra were a 'diamond in the rough'? Whirlpool is by no means an anti-Telstra site; the views held by a small proportion of users may in fact be anti-Telstra, but you're claiming that 17000 people took the survey just to spite Telstra? Laughable at best. Good to see your true colours (blue and gold) coming out though.
Posted by
Trevor,
Mar 3, 2008 6:33 PM
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lol a whirlpool survey? and someone bothered to take heed of it? Sorry but I post on whirlpool regularly and I have found it a very biased and opinionated site that is most definitely anti telstra from its users all the way to its moderators. 17 000 whirlpool users does in NO WAY describe the average cross section of internet users within Australia. p.s I never bothered with voting in the survey as it wasn't worth the time or effort.
Posted by
Fraser,
Mar 3, 2008 6:49 PM
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I would hardly call 17000 suveyed a wide ranging survey, particularly given the disclaimer in the last paragraph. Opinions coming from whirlpool website users are well known for being Anti-Telstra and cannot be taken seriously. We can only hope the Rudd Government can cut through the over regulation. Telstra has a plan for broadband & the competitiors keep whingeing from the sidelines.
Posted by
Fred,
Mar 3, 2008 7:42 PM
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Fraser, I am by no means anti-Telstra. I am, though, against the way Telstra behaves. They always seem to go crying in court when they dont get their own way (OPEL comes to mind.) As I said in my previous post on here, there are plenty of pro-telstra people on there..
Posted by
Chris,
Mar 3, 2008 7:44 PM
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I just love watching the way some Telstra people jump to dismiss and denigrate anything which is not pro-Telstra. You see it happen a lot over at Whirlpool too. The poll was valid... get over it. Take a look at the Telstra NWAT site by comparison - a more biased and anti-competition website you'll never see.
Posted by
Dave,
Mar 3, 2008 8:00 PM
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The reason Whirlpool comes off as anti-Telstra is exactly as the disclaimer states: "those surveyed largely represent the views of informed opinion leaders and informed consumers as opposed to regular broadband users."
Or, in other words, it represents the views of a large group of people who actually understand the technological and competition issues involved in telecommunications in Australia, and have an /informed/ opinion on the current state of play and what the implications will be if Telstra get their way. As opposed to the majority, who are largely influenced by the limited (and unfortunately often incorrect) information stated in the media or propaganda from Telstra.
As an aside, I find it funny that a large proportion of people who post pro-Telstra comments on articles like this one use phrase taken almost (or sometimes exactly) word-for-word from Telstra literature. "Telstra has a plan for broadband & the competitiors keep whingeing from the sidelines" from "Fred" is a great example.
I don't know if these people are Telstra's "mobilised" shareholders or just members of the general public who have fallen for the propaganda, but it's entertaining (while also a bit sad) none-the-less.
Posted by
Matt,
Mar 3, 2008 8:06 PM
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"Yes a lot of people are shareholders and NO why should Telstra give anymore freekicks to their competitors. The "truth" is that ISP/Telcos have had a gravy train ride for years with the Anti Telstra bashing argument. What about the 1 Billion dollars of Taxpayers money handed out to Singtel/Optus a foreign owned company. Guys grow up. The "Gravy train" ride is over. Invest in your own infrastructure & stop the whingeing."
Posted by
fred,
Mar 3, 2008 8:25 PM
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Re:Fred
>What about the 1 Billion dollars of Taxpayers money handed out to
Would that be the 1 Billion that Telstra is trying to get revoked for the last several weeks or more?
Personally, if Telstra stoped wasting shareholder money on so many pointless court cases (some are valid), so much propaganda, so much miss direction, then I am sure those anit-telstra people would have no ammo to use.
Posted by
Andrew,
Mar 3, 2008 8:40 PM
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You should try doing some research and forming your own opinion, rather than regurgitating what Telstra tell you.
Telstra don't give an "freekicks" to their competitors. Every ISP using Telstra's phone lines, or equipment, or anything else, pay for the priviledge. They pay a fair market rate, taking into account costs and a profit margin, generally as determined by the ACCC's.
Telstra's arguments that they are forced to give competitors access to their infrastructure at below-cost are pure BS - nothing more, nothing less. If you don't believe, you can go and read exactly how the ACCC determines fair access pricing.
Is the access pricing exactly as Telstra wishes it? No, it's not. But it's certainly not below cost - it's all costs PLUS a profit margin. And that's how things have to work when one company owns monopoly infrastrucre that no-one - not even Telstra - could afford to reproduce. It works that way with water, with gas, electricity, rail-ways, etc, etc. And I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that regulation of monopoly infrastructure isn't a good and necessary thing.
Re the government awarding the bush broadband contract to OPEL - so what? Everyone had the opportunity to tender for the contract - including Telstra - and OPEL simply presented the best option. Unless you're xenophobic I don't see how it's relevent who owns Optus - and I'd point out that plenty of Australians own shares in Optus too. At the end of the day, if they presented the best option for Australian consumers - who the government represent - then good luck to them. Telstra don't get default rights to government funds just because they were government owned 15 years ago.
Finally, re investing in their own infrastructure - anyone who regurgitates this crap has /no/ idea what's going on in the telecomms industry in Australia at the moment.
There are a lot of ISPs out there investing a lot of money in their own infrastructure. Just because I know it off the top of my head, I can tell you iiNet have spent somewhere around $50 million in the past few years on broadband and telephone "infrastructure". Optus have spent a lot more than that. Internode, AAPT, Primus, Adam, the list goes on - all have and are continuing to spend tens (sometimes hundreds) of millions of dollars on infrastructure. In fact, every single innovation in consumer broadband in this country in the last five years has been brought about by companies OTHER than Telstra spending money on infrastructure.
In fact, the biggest barrier to infrastructure spending on broadband in Australia at the moment are Telstra themselves, by denying ISPs access to telephone exchanges, and/or making it as expensive and slow as possible for them to gain access. If that barrier was removed, you'd see even more dollars going to infrastructure than already are, and a lot more people getting access to competitive and /innovative/ broadband products.
Posted by
Matt,
Mar 3, 2008 8:46 PM
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You Anti telstra guys want your cake & to be able to eat it too. I refer to the last paragraph regarding telephone exchanges..Would Qantas let Singapore airlines use their terminals??? No Way!!! And by the way I am not Xenophobic. I think this debate is great...but keep the emotion out of it.
Posted by
fred,
Mar 3, 2008 9:17 PM
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Well fred, your comment is just incorrect because Telstra are FORCED to allow access to their exchanges because THEY ARE A MONOPOLY. But, so the story goes, they stall and make excuses as to why Competitor X has to wait X months/years to get into an exchange to put their own gear in.
In addition to that, if the Airport Terminal industry was considered a utility such as the telecommunications industry, then QANTAS would be forced to allow competitors to use their terminals.
Them's the rules for monopolies.
What's Telstra's market worth, how close would 4.7 billion get towards buying back >50% government control? THAT would be a step in the right direction.
Posted by
Daniel Crowe,
Mar 3, 2008 10:48 PM
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Oh dear here we go again. Those whose interest are served by the continuance of the parasitical freeloads of Telstra's opponents on Telstra are in full cry. The ACCC idea to create a false competition by allowing lesser companies to use Telstra equipment for little cost only creates a situation that will defeat it's own purpose in future years.
Posted by
fred,
Mar 4, 2008 12:28 AM
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As a proud Australian it is beyond my comprehension how an Australian Government could give 1 billion dollars of taxpayer money to a company 50% foreign owned and then have the traitorous thought to bequeath the Nations broadband system to a company completely foreign owned.
Posted by
Sydney Lawrence,
Mar 4, 2008 8:28 AM
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Fred, do you understand what a 'monopoly' is??
Telstra is one, Qantas is not. Also, comparing the airline industry with telecommunications is irrelevant.
Telstra are doing their level best to prevent competitors from accessing exchanges.. Maybe you should have a look on the likes of Whirlpool and other sites, and see what kind of problem competitors are having in getting into exchanges..
All I can say, Fred, IS DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!
And Sydney Lawrence, there are quite a large number of reasons that OPEL was awarded the contract, and not Telstra. Anti competitive behaviour is one of the major points. Could you imagine what Telstra would charge to wholesale Next G? Enough said..
Posted by
Chris,
Mar 4, 2008 9:54 AM
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Matt, I completely agree with you... Examples like Fred posting nearly word-for-word propaganda from NWAT just shows how "brainwashed" Telstra has the Australian public.
What I don't understand is, how can people actually fall for this rubbish?
And to you Sydney Lawrence, Overseas companies get tenders to build lots of things in Australia, why should Telecoms be any different. It was an open Tender process, Telstra chose not to contribute any of their own funds to the project, and because of that, they didn't get the tender.
You do realise that the senior management of Telstra is American right?
Wow.
Posted by
Alex,
Mar 4, 2008 9:54 AM
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I feel that even though a group of people are anti-Telstra on WP it is still a reflection of what REAL broadband users want. The people stating that it is completely biased against Telstra would also note that 52% of the people said they would prefer a government owned infrastructure build rather than Telstra or G9.
If you people would actually go and look at Broadband General on the Whirlpool forums, you will note that it is not only Telstra that gets a raw deal. Optus and G9 also get a fair brunt of attacks as well.
What a few of you people seem to ignore is that these are the people that would USE and also WANT a high speed broadband network. Not your average joe-blow that is more than content with 512k adsl-1 at $30-40 a month.
Posted by
Smithy,
Mar 4, 2008 11:13 AM
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Mostly the Anti Telstra people, always click on multiple links to make Telstra's services look bad %my clicking in the unsatisfactory , even the majoreity of people who gave Telstra the bad rep arent even telstra customers , but customers of other isps, Shows what a joke the whirlpool survey is
fair because anyone can
Posted by
Stewart,
Mar 4, 2008 5:05 PM
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The survey is valid. There is a reason why people don't like Telstra, and that's because their products are the worst in the country and the only way they can stay afloat is to take legal action, and stop customers being able to sign up to other ISPs by various means (technology blockers, saying exchanges are full when they are not, and the list goes on). I was stuck on Dialup for 4 months because of Telstra, and am still limited to ADSL, because of Telstra. Funnily enough when I rang them they said we will get me ADSL2+ with no problems at all. Government, please break up Telstra asap for all our sakes!!
Posted by
I want broadband,
Mar 5, 2008 5:22 PM
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Lets hope the Government break up Optus too, Optus stops revivals from using their dsl direct.
Optus arent operational spearation and stopping people from recieiving Broadband Please Conroy split up Optus then people in Australia could get broadband
Posted by
Oracle,
Mar 5, 2008 7:05 PM
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I agree with Oracle, Optus are worst then Telstra and stopping people from using other isp;s. And the government or ACCC isnt doing anything about it, maybe its time for optus to be operational separated from wholesale and retail, then people may be able to get broadband, until then Optus is the biggest hurfle for people to get broadband
Posted by
Roy B,
Mar 5, 2008 7:10 PM
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