NBN plan mutiny could lead to Senate delay

By Ry Crozier on Nov 18, 2010 10:04 AM
Filed under Telco/ISP

Storm erupts over NBN Co business plan.

Opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull has all but called on the Senate to delay voting on the Telstra split bill until after the Government releases NBN Co's business plan.

It came after the Government appeared to openly flout a Senate motion to produce the three-year business plan by the end of the week by saying they wouldn't do so until after parliament had finished sitting this year.

The Government's stance was widely criticised by the Greens, independents and Coalition last night.

The Senate was due to debate - and vote - on a bill that would split Telstra and introduce a regulatory framework for the NBN in the next week.

When asked whether the Senate should delay its vote until next year, Turnbull said today that he did "not see how the House or the Senate, members of any chamber, can responsibly deal with this [NBN] project without really understanding the financial consequences, the economics of the project.

"It is incredible," Turnbull said on the steps of Parliament House today.

"They’re [the Government] refusing to publish the business plan.

"And... when we finally do see something, if we ever do, it will be over the summer break, hopefully when not too much attention are being paid to matters politica. And it will be heavily edited. The one thing Stephen Conroy doesn’t want to do is face any real scrutiny."

Turnbull said that the Government's offer of a private briefing on the business plan was an "insult".

"I thought we were in a new era of sunshine and accountability where the public would be allowed to know what’s happening with $43 billion of their taxes," Turnbull said.

"The idea of private briefings is just an insult. The Government should publish the business plan, full- stop. They should have published it the moment it was completed."

NBN plan mutiny could lead to Senate delay

15 comments in this discussion

"Ace wrote: it is much rarer to find someone who doesn't want something than to find someone who does. It is? - on what basis is this amazing conclusion reached? Particularly where there ..."

By advocate

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nbnco, nbn, broadband, plan, mutiny, lead, senate, delay, greens

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Comments: 15

djzort Nov 18, 2010 12:31 PM	if you want to borrow money from a bank, you need a good business plan. if you want to borrow $43billion from a bank, you need to have an astonishingly good business plan.... if you want $43billion from a labor government, its yours no questions asked.
Ace Nov 18, 2010 1:42 PM	Why would a government have a 'business' plan? I mean I understand MT has large business interests, and is therefore very interested in business plans, but the government isn't in the business of running a business. If you know what I mean. A government must have policies and transparency on spending (spending must be tied to policies). While they must be able to justify spending, this does not amount to a business plan, because it it not expected that the government profit from their spending. In fact a loss is expected in most instances. What was the business plan for paying money to people who are out of work? Must have been a lousy one! BTW, it's not a $43 billion loan @djzort. That amount is a budgetary figure that includes interest on repayments on various loans taken out over the next 6 or 7 years. And you seem to indicate Labor is taking out a $43b loan for someone. Who?
djzort Nov 18, 2010 3:25 PM	@Ace labor has said all along that NBN will provide a generous ROI. Yet they are unwilling to quantify it. What other metric can the value of tax payer dollars being spent on comm's infrastructure can there be other than commercial return? Hospitals? patients treated. Transport? commuters per day. Broadband? packets per second? NBN is just labor buying votes with tax payer dollars. If they were serious about stimulating telecommunications they would do so with legislation, providing incentives to private industry to roll out to areas with a poor cost/return ratio. But they arent so they wont. And whilst the NBN muddles along, the purse of private investors will stay closed.
HubertCumberdale Nov 18, 2010 4:18 PM	Quote: "I thought we were in a new era of sunshine and accountability where the public would be allowed to know what’s happening with $43 billion of their taxes," Turnbull said. Mr Turnbull, I understand you are still butthurt about losing the election over something as progressive, alien and far too advanced for you or Mr Abbot to comprehend but this sort of stupidity has to stop. Millions of Australians want the NBN regardless of whether you and your backwards Luddite chums see any benefit to it so dont be surprised if you lose the next election too due to your stalling tactics.
btone Nov 18, 2010 10:22 PM	Hey Mal, I am sure you have only the very best of intentions here (cough), but imagine if your side under little Johhny and the fishnet lad from the Adelaide hills had asked the AWB for a business case into the slipping of 300m into Saddam's slush fund, and received a 400 page report on it. I'm sure if Beazley had asked for it to be released a week later you guys would have handed it straight over, eh? Eh? yeah right...
Ace Nov 19, 2010 12:09 AM	A government ROI is not about dollars @djzort. It's about increases in opportunities for people and businesses, increases in productivity, increases in standards of living etc. We would all like money spent on anything to pay for itself, but that is, and should be secondary for a government. Their responsibility is to be an enabler, and most people a happy enough to fund that goal. It is well proven that "incentives to private industry to roll out to areas with a poor cost/return ratio" simply does not work. They tried it with PPP's for tunnels around Sydney. All the companies have either gone broke or failed to make a profit, but we wouldn't want to do without them. It not that the tunnels are not worth it. It's simply that the companies do not have access to benefits of productivity gains and a 'happiness' value that the tunnels bring to the population. That said, looking at the value of these kind of networks, I'd be surprised if the NBN didn't pay for itself in a relatively few short years.
advocate Nov 19, 2010 1:05 PM	Ace wrote: That said, looking at the value of these kind of networks, I'd be surprised if the NBN didn't pay for itself in a relatively few short years. Really? Well that's assuming there is anyone on it by 2018. http://www.theage.com.au/national/more-opt-out-of-fixed-lines-20101118-17zbb.html With the figure at 14% and rising of end users that don't have a fixed line connection anymore the NBN maybe all dressed up with no one coming to the party, especially amongst the younger demographic. The article makes the assertion that it is bad news for Telstra, but at least Telstra has the best wireless network in Australia by a country mile (excuse the pun), and Conroy is going to give them at least $11 billion for their co-operation on the NBN. What is Telstra going to do with the $11billion gift?, pump it into the wireless BB infrastructure of course, only the sucker taxpayer is blowing billions on another yet fixed line rollout that people are leaving anyway and at the same time bankrolling Telstra so it can compete even more with the NBN fixed line BB! The ultimate irony is end users are 'leaving' a network that has not even been built yet. FTTH - Fibre to the Hype. Edited by advocate: 19/11/2010 01:07:33 PM
advocate Nov 19, 2010 1:17 PM	HubertCumberdale wrote: Millions of Australians want the NBN They do? - is this the same amount that don't want it? I know who will lose the next election, Labor are on the nose at the moment, and Conroy's totally arrogant "I know what's best for you" attitude to the electorate and his treatment of the Senate is not winning him many friends in a Parliament where this Labor minority Government needs all the friends it can scrounge up, it is tap dancing on a thin stage. Edited by advocate: 19/11/2010 01:21:30 PM
Ace Nov 19, 2010 1:52 PM	@advocate, it is much rarer to find someone who doesn't want something than to find someone who does. Particularly where there is a huge amount of people who a) don't even know what it is and/or b) another huge amount of people who don't really care one way or the other. It's human nature. As such, Hubert may be right in his inference that more people for for the NBN than against it. As far as the next election goes, Abbott & Co need to be careful not to come across ass bullies or opportunists while making (or attempting to make) Labor look bad. We've all been taught that bullies are bad and should be outcasts. I'm not sure that the NBN issue is going to have a lot of sway in any election.
HubertCumberdale Nov 19, 2010 2:23 PM	advocate wrote: blah blah blah For a start do you think you can learn how to quote properly, it's not hard even Mr Turnbull could do it I'm sure. advocate wrote: They do? - is this the same amount that don't want it? Same amount? you think this issue is split evenly down the middle? Wow, So if Australia has a population of 22million 11million want the NBN and 11million do not, is that what you really think? Hate to spoil your Liberal party-esque delusions but the majority of people in this country want the NBN... advocate wrote: I know who will lose the next election, Labor are on the nose at the moment, Actually both parties are on the nose at the moment, that's why we had a hung parliament, thankfully the independents aren't as retarded as your Coalition/Labor party cabals and we actually might get some progress in this country in the form of a NBN... advocate wrote: more blah blah blah Thanks for stopping by.
advocate Nov 19, 2010 3:52 PM	HubertCumberdale wrote: For a start do you think you can learn how to quote properly, it's not hard even Mr Turnbull could do it I'm sure. I did quote properly. but the majority of people in this country want the NBN... This is based on what deep thinking analysis - gut feel? we actually might get some progress in this country in the form of a NBN... If the majority signs up for it, they only way they will sign up for it is they are headlocked into taking it, but that's how a Government run monopoly works, you make sure there are no competitors. more blah blah blah More deep thinking analysis, it's breathtaking in its simplicity. Edited by advocate: 19/11/2010 03:54:36 PM
HubertCumberdale Nov 19, 2010 4:24 PM	advocate wrote: I did quote properly. You didn't, and you've stuffed this one up too. advocate wrote: This is based on what deep thinking analysis - gut feel? Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you were one of those people that live out in the middle of nowhere with their parents and has limited contact with other humans... advocate wrote: If the majority signs up for it, they only way they will sign up for it is they are headlocked into taking it, but that's how a Government run monopoly works, you make sure there are no competitors. As opposed to the Telstra run monopoly we have now? oh noes Henny penny a wholesale monopoly that's run by the government why that just terrible, we cant have that! advocate wrote: More deep thinking analysis, it's breathtaking in its simplicity. You are calling your post "deep thinking analysis"? I dont think so, simple yes deep thinking no. Of course most of what liberal understands has to be simple when you are dealing with people like Abbot and Turnbull so I guess you can have some points for at least understanding your audience.
advocate Nov 19, 2010 4:45 PM	HubertCumberdale wrote: You didn't, and you've stuffed this one up too. You keep saying that as in merely 'saying it' is sufficient without really explaining what the misquote is (not that there is any). Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you were one of those people that live out in the middle of nowhere with their parents and has limited contact with other humans... So that's a definite no then, going off on a completely off topic tangent and adding a bit of personal attack for good measure indicates you have no idea how many Australians support the NBN, merely saying 'millions' is all that is required, you should write up the CBA for Conroy, head it up "Gut Feel Deep thinking Analysis of the NBN" by HC, on the first 10 pages you could just repeat 'blah blah blah' over and over. As opposed to the Telstra run monopoly we have now? oh noes Henny penny a wholesale monopoly that's run by the government why that just terrible, we cant have that! So we replace one originally Government owned monopoly which the Telco industry complained about for 13 years with another Government owned monopoly? - brilliant! who would have ever thought that was the way forward in 2010 to promote communications competition in Australia. FTTH - Fibre to the Hype.
HubertCumberdale Nov 19, 2010 5:02 PM	advocate wrote: You keep saying that as in merely 'saying it' is sufficient without really explaining what the misquote is (not that there is any). yeah you keep doing it, just quoting my post and then wrapping italic tags around stuff is not quoting, your whole post really is a clusterfk and it's not my job to teach you, this is pretty standard stuff on every forum in the internets... oh you must have come from whirlpool that would explain it... advocate wrote: So that's a definite no then, going off on a completely off topic tangent and adding a bit of personal attack for good measure indicates you blah blah blah oh great another crymore with a persecution complex, I really wish people would learn what does and doesn't constitute a personal attack... advocate wrote: So we replace one originally Government owned monopoly which the Telco industry complained about for 13 years with another Government owned monopoly? - brilliant! who would have ever thought that was the way forward in 2010 to promote communications competition in Australia. So that's it? that's your problem with the NBN? is that we will have a government owned monopoly? just LOL, do you even understand the difference between wholesale and retail? thought not... advocate wrote:** FTTH - Fibre to the Hype. Fibre to the Hype or blah blah blah?
advocate Nov 19, 2010 5:05 PM	Ace wrote: it is much rarer to find someone who doesn't want something than to find someone who does. It is? - on what basis is this amazing conclusion reached? Particularly where there is a huge amount of people who a) don't even know what it is and/or b) another huge amount of people who don't really care one way or the other. Once again that is just an opinion and gut feel I assume, my post was based on the facts what end users are doing today, that is they are moving away from a fixed line connection to the residence. As such, Hubert may be right in his inference that more people for for the NBN than against it. Or he might be 100% wrong. As far as the next election goes, Abbott & Co need to be careful not to come across ass bullies or opportunists while making (or attempting to make) Labor look bad. We've all been taught that bullies are bad and should be outcasts Oh 'Abbott & Co', sorry for a moment there I thought you were talking about Conroy. I'm not sure that the NBN issue is going to have a lot of sway in any election. Indeed you are correct, but it doesn't stop the pro-NBN brigade using the last Labor election win where they won power courtesy of the Independents as a indicator that it was total support for the NBN does it?